CAR is dead neeed some help...

[killab443]

I recntly got a used transmisson and new clutch installed in my 92 fwd turbo eclipse. Install appears ok. My friend dropped the car off to me and told be there was some problems with the way the engine was running . I start it up and try it out and valves are tapping to hell and the engine is struggleing to stay on. Turbo isnt making any boost at all but I checked it the turbo is spinng fine with little play. So i bring the car back out after messing with a few things(hoses and clamps), and showed no signs of improvment. A little down the street on my way back I felt someting in the engine give out(no pop or anything) Just the engine cutting out and my car died and I pushed it to the side of the road. When you turn the engine over it seems like its not getting any compression at all. All you hear is the sound of the starter motor and see everything spinning like it should,(cams,crank, ect) just no compression. My guess is the headgasket, but I dont no why the valves would have tapped before the gasket going. Could it be the timingbelt? The belt appears to be intact and tight aftert taking the cover off and checking it.
Please help me out I dont know were to start on this project

 

[BUCK]

My friend dropped the car off to me and told be there was some problems with the way the engine was running .

This is not a good clue - Smells like a joy ride.

Could it be the timingbelt? The belt appears to be intact and tight aftert taking the cover off and checking it.

Yes - Sure sounds like it when you mention Starter Spinning & No Compression.... It was off a tooth when he dropped it off - You then finished it off... Bent valves, etc...

Explain... by "checking it" do you mean with Upper Timing Belt Cover off you bumped starter till Timing mark on Crank Pulley is at TDC - THEN saw where the Timing Marks are on Cam Pulleys were at?

Most of us have been here dude - Feeling your pain.

 

[killab443]

The marks on the cams appear to be lined up i gotta get under the car to check the crank tdc rite? so you saying that the started f'ed it up?

 

[BUCK]

No - Look down past the Alternator to the Crank Pulley from above & sight the Timing Marks at TDC on the Lower Front Case - THEN check the Cam Marks.

 

[killab443]

Im gunna go and pick the car up from the street today and check out the timing on it. So the starter may have been off a tooth? I dont see how that could mess up the timing. Please explain

 

[BUCK]

DUDE - It has NOTHING to do with the Starter - You USE the Starter to "bump" the Engine to where the Timing Mark on the Crank Pulley is at the TDC Mark on the Lower Timing Belt Cover - THEN check the Marks on the Cam Sprockets.

 

[NAT01]

Yeah, the same exact thing happened to me while I was going down the highway a couple weeks ago. I still have yet to check the car out and see what is exactly wrong. I have it at my local mechanic, but they haven't even checked it out (I asked if they could do a compression check, but they've been backed up) I haven't been able to do it myself either cause it's at their place, and I haven't had the time. But once I have enough money saved up (I'm already almost halfway there), I'll bring it to an experienced mechanic to get their opinion. A full engine rebuild for my car (block and head) will cost around $2300. If you can do most of the work yourself, you might be able to, just might be able to cut the total cost in half. So good luck.

 

[killab443]

Any ideas how the timing might have gotten f'ed up

 

[BUCK]

Originally posted by killab443 Any ideas how the timing might have gotten f'ed up

Does this mean you've checked it as we asked you?

 

[killab443]

Ok I took the right engine mount of looking for the btdc mark, It says btdc on the cover but theres marks all over the crank pulley, what am i looking for, do you have any pics?

 

[Trizon]

hm

 

[BUCK]

Look for the NOTCH in the CRANK Pulley - typically it's dabbed with white paint. That's the P/S & AC Pulley in these pix - The Arrow Pointing to the Timing Scale - The CRANK PULLEY buried underneath.

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http://www.vfaq.com/FAQlocator-index.html

 

[killab443]

Ok I lined the mark up on the table and the crank notch. I lined it up on the line marked TD. and checkout out the cams the intake appears to be striaght accross (how it should)and the exhaust side is below looks like 2 teeth (below the intake mark). Now I was wondering why when i hit tdc i cant turn the crank anymore with a rachet it was using and i have to then use the starter to bump it out of tdc. So im asuming my heads got bent valves and all that great stuff?

 

[killab443]

O yea and id post pics of the crank and cams but i keep getting some internet errorand it wont let me

 

[killab443]

Ok so i replace the belt and pulleys, and now i can only tell if i need a new head after i install the new belt w/ pulleys and try to start it up?

 

[BUCK]

quote:
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So im asuming my heads got bent valves and all that great stuff?
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MAYBE - There are guys out there who lucked up on only a 2 Tooth Jump & bent NO valves - You could just be feeling the resistance of the Compression at TDC on one of the Pistons (this is a good thing) & not be able to turn it with a ratchet - (or yes the starter is bending your already bent valves so what the hell) - At this point I'd get the car up on Jackstands wherever you choose to do your Timing Belt Job (& MAYBE a Head Job - but MAYBE not). Then find a small Maglite with fresh batteries - Pull the Spark Plugs & look down thru the Head at the Piston Tops for any shiny "Heavy Duty Dings".

 

[NAT01]

Well, I was just wondering somethin. If he ends up only having a couple little dings in the tops of the pistons, can he still re-use them when doing a rebuild? He'd probably want to get new pistons if there are a few "heavy duty dings", right? And killab443, keep us updated!

 

[TimG]

I'm with Buck on this.

Take off the upper engine mount.

Take off your accessories: power steering, alternator. Along with the belts. Then take off the pullies for all these accessories and the crankshaft.

Take off your timing belt covers and line up the actual marks on the crankshaft, oil pump and camshafts. If they are off, I'd do a head rebuild.

It's not worth putting a new timing belt on and finding out the valves are bent. You have a better chance of having the valves bent, over them not being bent. When this happened to me, the valves barely tapped the pistons and all bent off 2 degrees or so and wouldn't hold compression. The culprit was a broken balance shaft being eaten up by the timing belt.

 

[BUCK]

Unless you see Heavy Duty Dings you'd have to do a Compression test to really tell - But generally if the Valves hit the Piston anyway whatsoever at least the outer Sealing area of the Valve is dinged = NOT GOOD. A lot of these cars have Pistons that have been thru MULTIPLE valve collisions - a Piston like that has a few extra thousandths Valve Clearance - & could possibly be a saving grace in a close call like a 2 Tooth Jump so I would certainly reuse a dinged Piston - but not a dinged Valve.

HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL IN THE DSM WORLD...

 

[killab443]

would i just be changing the timing belt? Or would I be changing every pully and tensioner as well?

 

[TimG]

Generally timing belt, balance shaft belt and auto tensenor are replaced. The rest I just oil up and replace every 2 belt changes. Just line up your marks. If they are off, you will most likely need to redo your timing belt and do a compression check.

 

[mazdamx6pwr.com]

Replace the water pump too if you can afford it. Sux to remove everything and the pump go in a few K.

Adam

 

[NAT01]

Should he also construct one of these http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html
This way if he places the engine at TDC, he can also pressurize the sytem, so that leaks from the valves can be heard if they are indeed bent?

 

[blu_gxl]

I'd check your fuel pump. And make sure you have spark before you start replacing the timing belt. You can test for compression by just taking the #1 spark plug out and unpluging the fuel pump, then turn the motor over with the key if you hear a sound like a BOV would make your probably not looking at a compression issue. to test the fuel pump get under the car and with a SOFT mallet hit the under side of the gas tank a couple of times. If the car starts up then you have a fuel pump issue. and to test for spark just unplug the fuel pump and get a spark tester from your local parts store (about a dollar) and install it in the #1 spark plug wire and have a friend crank it over for you while you watch for spark.

 

[BUCK]

KILLAB443 :the intake appears to be striaght accross (how it should)and the exhaust side is below looks like 2 teeth (below the intake mark).

blu_gxl WTF are you talking about? - His Timing Belt has jumped a couple teeth!

As stated check the Pulley Bearings thoroughly & replace if showing ANY wobble - We have no way of knowing if they are original or not & yes I'd do the Water Pump too unless you KNOW it has less than 50K on it.