ok, whats it gonna take??

[larryd]

Ok guys im seriously considering going the nitrous route to get myself more power so I can get my Eclipse into the 12s.. What exactly do i need to do it safely??

If I get a kit the obvious things for me are

All Import EFI Nozzle System (35-50-75hp)
Fully Automatic Bottle Heater
Nitrous Pressure Gauge
Heavy Duty Fuel Pressure Safety Cut-Off Switch
NHRA Blow-Off Cap (3000 psi)
NHRA Blow-Down Tube
Purge Kit

Mallory Window Switch

What shot can I run knowing Im also pushing 20lbs on the Big 28? Im thnking about a 50 shot possibly? What do I need to do to the engine to be able to push this much, can I get away with just head studs or do I need forged internals?

Im sure there is more to this post that im leaving out but this is my base starting point, any help is appreciated

 

[m_berrow]

larry you shouldnt need to go the nitrous route with the big 28. You just need to pratice getting all your power to the ground. Dude get some cams and tune that baby. You should see 12's all day long. Take out that stereo equipment and all the extra stuff when you go to the track. You are askin for trouble trying to do turbo and NOS unless you have a completely built motor.

 

[verserv]

Yea larry, a nitrous shot would be kind of dumb. You could damage your car and with what you have you just need some tuning and some practice driving. I bet you could find a better way to spend $500 than on nitrous.

 

[verserv]

With what you have i would recomned porting the exhaust manifold if you havent yet. Then if you really want to get power do a 1g head sawp.
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1g2gheadswaptechtip.htm
Just would rather see some safe power on a nice car like that.

 

[larryd]

but for porting the exhaust manifold dont you also need to port the head? its just like there are no simple bolt ons now.. if I do the porting its going to be a 1g intake manifold and throttle body port matched to my 2g head with arp head studs and ported exhaust manifold and turbo with a 7cm gasket.. i dunno thats alot right there

as for removing the stereo, no can do.. its built in tight as my x-gfs ass .. seriously its not meant to be removed, I know its added weight but I dont see weight being my enemy here, i see traction being my enemy..

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by larryd
but for porting the exhaust manifold dont you also need to port the head?

Nope porting the exhaust manifold will only help with flow

Originally posted by larryd
its just like there are no simple bolt ons now.

Wrong! You still have a lot left to go. I would get rid of that pos B&m unit and get a infinitely better AEM or SX regulator. With the addition of that it should make tuning a lot easier because you stock fpr is way over run and I bet the car would smooth out a lot.

Then you have to add cams and cam gears that should help your top end out a lot. Then there is the 1st gen intake mani and tb.

Originally posted by larryd
i dunno thats alot right there

Yes and it never ends. Think hard you have a nice beautiful daily driver now before you got crazy and get a crappy idle and have a bottle in the trunk think about going the 1st gen awd route

 

[m_berrow]

well...i guess i'm with everyone else when i say try the really good tires. nitto 555 drags or some toyo's. That should do it. The rest will depend on how you drive.

 

[larryd]

well i really dont want a second car for just the track as i know i dont get that much use out of it, and my insurance beleive it or not only as a second car liability is rediculous so I think the 2nd car option is a null point and i love my car to much to get rid of it just for a faster car..

as for the porting, so I guess I could port the exhaust manifold and the turbo.. thats not a bad idea.. I know I should prolly do the rest of it though, it just equates to downtime which without a second car right now I cant do.. maybe soon though..

oh and I actually dont have the BM on the car.. i never bothered installing it.. Im still on the stock FPR.

 

[SOURCE1064]

Larry,

I personally haven't tried nos with turbo but I am having it installed in my car. I am going with a Nitrous Express NX Gen-X2 75hp wet Nitrous Kit. I don't have any heavy engine work done to my car the only real things I have 18G turbo, cam gears and I have ordered the 264/272 HKS cams. Running the boost you want to with a 50hp shot should be fine.

The NX Gen-X2 Nitrous Kit includes a regular NX kit, a nitrous pressure gauge (for monitoring the bottle pressure to ensure proper air/fuel mixtures), a fuel pressure safety cutoff switch (to cut-off nitrous operation if the fuel pressure drops below a given level), a fully automatic bottle heater (to keep bottle pressure high in cool weather operation), an inline lifetime cleanable nitrous filter, and a NHRA blowdown cap and tube (a safety feature that purges the bottle in case of excess bottle pressure), a purge kit (which allows you to decrease bottle pressure in warmer weather, and also clears the lines of any excess nitrous gasses). To this kit I'm adding a remote bottle opener so I can open it while it sits in my trunk and I'm getting a bottle blanket since it gets cold during the winter time in the northeast. My system is costing me $1000 so I don't know if you want to spend that much

As far as problems are concerned, I know several people with 3000gt twin turbos, supra turbos, and eclipse turbos that run both turbos and nos with light or no modifications done to their engines (pistons, rods, etc.). I went with this full out kit to make sure that it is safe and I don't ruin my engine.

According to nitrous express, "Nitrous in and of itself cannot “blowup” an engine. Nitrous kits of poor design poor quality, and improper air/fuel ratios damage engines." You can find more question and answer stuff at their website http://www.nitrousexpress.com/q&a.htm

Charlie


My Eclipse Page

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[verserv]

"Nitrous in and of itself cannot “blowup” an engine. Nitrous kits of poor design poor quality, and improper air/fuel ratios damage engines."

Right on the money, it can cause problems because it needs more careful monitoring and control. The install is the most important, I have heard more horror stories of poor installs than you can beleive. In fact I know a guy who did a good install and something was defective and blew the hatch/back end of his car off. A DSM no less. Its an explosive substance and needs to be used with caution.

 

[larryd]

yeah ill agree.. anything done in poor quality can be bad for the car.. but if done properly it would be fine.. i dont know though, i still might venture this way eventually

 

[NosLaser]

Larry, give me a complete rundown of your mods (not including stereo and suspension) and I'll let you know where you need to go from there. Let me know your mods first, and I'll tell you about the nitrous system. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "No" do not put nitrous on your car. After you list your mods for me, I'll discuss why.

Regards,

 

[larryd]

Performance Mods
FP Big 28
TRE Ported O2 Housing
Greddy FMIC
Injen Intake
Greddy Upper & Lower IC Piping
Greddy S Type BOV
Apexi N1 Exhaust
Apexi Front Pipe & Cat Bypass
Magnecor 8.5mm Wires
NGK Plugs
Greddy Profec B Boost Controller
Apexi S-AFC
RC Engineering 550s
B&M FPR & Gauge
3KGTVR4 Fuel Pump
Pocket Logger

Gauges
Greddy 52mm Boost
Greddy 52mm EGT

 

[NosLaser]

Ahh grasshopper. I see room for improvement already. You may not like what I have to say, but you will see an improvement if you follow my advice. I would first scrap the 3K GT fuel pump for a Walbro 255lph HP pump. Regardless of the hype, they simply flow more, and you want the capapbility for as much volume as possible, even if you aren't using it right now. Even though you have a ported O2 housing, if you plan on running nitrous, I would also scrap that and purchase an O2 eliminator downpipe. The reason for this is a ported O2 housing will still NEVER match the flow of a 3 inch downpipe. With nitrous, your EGT's go up real quick, especially on a turbo car, and you want as much flow as possible. PERIOD. Nobody can contest that fact. From here, portwork on the exhaust manifold is your next move. I responded to your technical query in the 2.0 Tuning section saying that if you are gonna do a head swap, then I suggest doing a motor as well. Here is why. If you plan on running nitrous, you must understand the way it adds cylinder pressure, and how timing affects that. You can run hella timing as long as you don't detonate, and you'll make big power and that's all well and good. However, your rods are only going to handle so much power. Let's say you spray your car on good gas, your AFC settings are pretty much on the money, so your ECU adds a lot of timing. You have no control over this because you only have an AFC. What's going to happen is because of the advanced timing, you will likely reach peak cylinder pressure at or about top dead center. When this occurs, the piston becomes extremely "heavy" because it is fighting it's way through all that cylinder pressure, and the crank isn't moving fast enough so you actually get some rod deflection, and those tiny 2G rods aren't going to hold that much pressure, especially with the stress of a bending rod on there. Rod deflection is a slight 'bow' in the connecting rod due to pressure, heat, and speed of motion. Metal, regardless of how strong it is, has the property to bend, and that's exactly what it's doing traveling at 5-6-7K rpm under high cylinder pressure conditions. If you have a strong rod that's designed to hold up under that kind of pressure, you'll be fine. However, the 2G rods DO NOT cut it. When you get into high power conditions, and high rpm, you also get crankshaft deflection, but that's another story entirely. You need to set a goal for yourself, lay out a plan, and STICK TO IT. Don't change your mind halfway through it because that's how things get skipped and looked over. How much power do you want to make? What kind of times do you plan on running? How serious and commited are you about making horsepower? Its not your wife or anything, but spending a big chunk of change on making your car fast is a pretty big financial and even emotional commitment. If you spent 8 grand, and blew it all up, I guaren-dam-tee you'll be emotional over it. Decide what you want, and 'll do my best to walk you through it step by step. BUT, once you decide on a plan, you have to commit yourself to sticking to it, and listen to my advice if you trust me with helping you out. If I tell you you need it, you NEED it. Let me know, and I'll make myself available to help you.

Regards,

 

[verserv]

iu may have missed it in there, but your kick ass fpt28 is missing some real fun because you dont have the exhaust manifold ported. It only cost like $100 to get the sucker ported.

 

[larryd]

well i didnt get the exhaust manifold and turbo ported becuase i wanted to get the head done as well with the intake manifold and throttle body..

NosLaser.. thank you for the great reply.. im going to hold off on the nitrous.. Im going to try and build an engine out of the car properly with everything I want done to be able to run serious boost and try and avoid having to go the nitrous route..