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e85 fuel setup if im gonna be running 500hp evnentually

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95GSXbigturbo

Probationary Member
8
0
Nov 25, 2012
minot, North_Dakota
if i plan on running 500hp eventually is it okay to put a e85 fuel setup with 1100cc injectors in my 95 gsx if im running stock injectors with a big 16g turbo and full rebuilt bottom and top end with eagle pistons bored .20 if i tune it will that be okay?
 
You were given the information you need to figure it out here:
There is nothing special about PTE that makes them spool inherently better or worse than any of the other manufacturers.

Spool is as much a factor of the engine setup and vehicle platform as it is the turbo and ambient conditions or fuel type.

They are however insanely expensive and the BB cartridges are usually not worth rebuilding when the time comes, instead the whole CHRA gets replaced.

Ask the guys at Borg Warner, Holset or Forced Perfomance whether BB CHRA's spool any faster or take less power to drive. They'll tell you a comparable modern JB turbo is every bit the same in that aspect.

And you can rebuild them for 1/4 the cost or less of a BB CHRA in most cases. If you want to make 500whp out of a 2.0 you cannot expect to be spoon fed what you need to know.

Do you have E85 available to you in ND?

Skip most of those things for now. You don't want a 4" intake pipe on a 16G.

Porting the wastegate hole is a good idea, or you could just run more boost. It would be good practice if you intend to make 500awhp or anywhere near that number.

You don't need a new manifold, I maxed out a ~65lb/min turbo on a ported 2G exhaust manifold. At the sacrifice of efficiency ofcourse, before swapping housings and manifolds to a T3 and then eventually a T4 backside.

I picked up power every time I got bigger on the turbine side, but for a TD05H turbine wheel and 7cm2 housing on a 16G the manifold is not your restriction. So save any money you would spend on an external gate or manifold for when you change turbos entirely.

Start with ECMLink, a fuel pressure regulator and enough fuel pump/injector for 20% more power than you intend to make on a given fuel.

Always base your fuel on worst case figures.

You want to make 500awhp? Pick a turbo that can move the amount of air you will need. Then pick a cam to suit the turbo, and roughly where that cam likes to make power in terms of rev range. Then pick your turbine housing to match.

Plot your rough estimate for engine demand flow (VE adjusted) on the map to give you an idea of what sort of boost figures you can expect to hit that airflow at.

So for pump gas use a 10:1 AFR for your fuel calc at ~60lbs/min airflow

For E85 I use ~6.7:1

Now find out what pump will flow that amount of fuel at your chosen combined fuel pressure (Base plus Boost pressure)

Now size your injectors. You would be wise to go straight to an FIC2150/ID2200 if you have E85 available.

Based on that above, do the math and find out what you need, it's actually pretty easy and I'm not doing you any favors if I spoon feed you like use X pump with Y injectors and Z regulator.

This is how you need to think from now on, and for every aspect of the car.

From this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/453402-95-gsx-how-make-500hp.html

Now do some research and the basic math involved. If you are looking to make 250awhp/liter you cannot expect to be spoon fed everything. Take some pride in figuring it out.
 
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Sure you can use 1100cc injectors,16g and e85 now, as long as you can tune for it. Eagle doesnt make pistons just so you know.
 
I guess i took the question a little different. If this is really the question, as noted there is tons of 500hp fuel info on here.....
 
i already have a rewired wahlboro 255 fuel pump.. i have eagle rods and manley pistons my bad LOL my car is ready to be completely built but as long as i can tune it i can run 1100cc injectors then? sweet thanks guys

1100cc injectors wont support 500hp?
 
Any logs to show your IDC's? I highly doubt they were under 100%, or possibly even close to it.




The "Injector Size Calculator" here will answer your question.
Misc Calculators - DSMtuners

Awesome calculators, really gets old seeing these half @$$ed guys bragging about making 500hp on 600cc injectors... :barf:
 
I was about to say when I was calculating it for me you need 1650s or higher I think to hit thay number and be under 85%

You only need about 1450's to hit 600-700hp on Higher blends of E85-E98 with out maxing them out. (from real world experience not on paper)

Though it depends on your application obviously a Road racer would want more fudge factor then someone Drag racing. A lot of the time you get limited by the fuel pump before the Injector though. I've seen people nearly max out 2150's because lack of pump to support them.

Most of the calculators Don't take into account the fact that once on ethanol you are leaning your AFR out(on a gas scale w/b for ethanol) and freeing up some injector. Either way in the end you can make what ever your car allows you to on the Fuel system setup for it's setup. No two cars are going to be the same in the end it's what you do in the real world not what some calculation says you can. It's not a bad thing to get an Idea but to expect things to be exact is foolish or to doubt that someone did something with X amount of fuel. Because a paper says they can't... .
 
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So true... . A lot of people fail to realize the affect that raising base pressure has for an example and make assumptions that they will have more fuel doing so. When in reality in some cases they are actually limiting them selves. Along with the fact the some pumps will bleed of pressure at X amount of combined BFP and Boost. A good Rewire and/or Boost a Pump can go a long ways on a maxed out setup. Or even punching reliefs on say a Walbro 255 HP or two :)

IMHO too Truly have any of the Calculators give you any real world numbers an not just a guesstimate you are going to have to know your true B.S.F.C.
 
You only need about 1450's to hit 600-700hp on Higher blends of E85-E98 with out maxing them out. (from real world experience not on paper)

Though it depends on your application obviously a Road racer would want more fudge factor then someone Drag racing. A lot of the time you get limited by the fuel pump before the Injector though. I've seen people nearly max out 2150's because lack of pump to support them.

Most of the calculators Don't take into account the fact that once on ethanol you are leaning your AFR out(on a gas scale w/b for ethanol) and freeing up some injector. Either way in the end you can make what ever your car allows you to on the Fuel system setup for it's setup. No two cars are going to be the same in the end it's what you do in the real world not what some calculation says you can. It's not a bad thing to get an Idea but to expect things to be exact is foolish or to doubt that someone did something with X amount of fuel. Because a paper says they can't... .

This is exactly the crap I'm talking about. Why do you people keep trying to tell people what they might be able to get away with instead of what's safe and may even give room to grow?
 
Who cares really in the end??? You can point people tell people or give andvice all day it's up to them in the end what they do. An around these pars there are quite a few "Askholes" :p

In the end most the people that are asking may never reach the goals they want because they have to ask in the first place and don't have the knowledge to as it is to do everything they need to get to them... .

I seen your car some time ago (before it was yours) hit a amount of power that would not have been expected on a fuel system an setup that "shouldn't" have an that wasn't even a full pull.

It is what it is in the end... . Either way I know I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. :)
 
I agree that the average guy saying he's going for 500hp will probably never reach 350. And back in the day when we were really pushing the limits and kept upping boost and taking our injectors over 100idc just to see how add hey can go is one thing. But with ecmlink now and the advancements in technology a 2200cc injector can can idle like a dream at almost any range.
 
I must be running out of pump(s) , I'm making a little north of 550whp on 2150's and I'm sitting at 70-80% IDC. 43psi base , 32psi of boost LOL.
 
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E85 would not be a problem with this setup. but I highly recomend a steel braided fuel line and ecm link

Ok, now tell us why

I must be running out of pump(s) , I'm making a little north of 550whp on 2150's and I'm sitting at 70-80% IDC. 43psi base , 32psi of boost LOL.

Sounds like it

What pump? Rewired? Are you running a stock filter and the banjo bolt line to the rail.
 
Any logs to show your IDC's? I highly doubt they were under 100%, or possibly even close to it.




The "Injector Size Calculator" here will answer your question.
Misc Calculators - DSMtuners

I dont have any logs off hand but could probably dig some up. IDC where around 97% and have been that way for over 2 seasons...... no issues at all besides a stock rod bolt letting go. I ran the 10.15 at 134 on that injector/pump setup.
 
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I dont have any logs off hand but could probably dig some up. IDC where around 97% and have been that way for over 2 seasons...... no issues at all besides a stock rod bolt letting go. I ran the 10.15 at 134 on that injector/pump setup.

You have to be running some pretty high base fuel pressure and/or lean AFRs to stay below 100% IDC on 940's and E85 at that power level. (Not that I'm doubting you.)

My guess is somewhere around 55 psi base FP and an AFR around 12.5:1. Am I close? :)
 
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You have to be running some pretty high base fuel pressure and/or lean AFRs to stay below 100% IDC on 940's and E85 at that power level. (Not that I'm doubting you.)

My guess is somewhere around 55 psi base FP and an AFR around 12.5:1. Am I close? :)

Damn, that is more pressure than I was guessing... Doesn't that screw up the spray pattern running that high? I thought I recalled reading that about jacking the pressure way up somewhere on here...
 
Damn, that is more pressure than I was guessing... Doesn't that screw up the spray pattern running that high? I thought I recalled reading that about jacking the pressure way up somewhere on here...

I just did some quick basic number crunching to come up with those ^ guesses....but every setup is different, so who knows. Pump voltage, line sizes, pump mods, filter loss, etc. all will affect it.

Higher base pressure usually helps with fuel atomization, at least to a point. The problem is that it also puts you at or above the crack point of the pump's high pressure relief valve in many cases, as MY1GDSM mentioned. Also, the pump's output (flow) is inversely proportional to outlet pressure, so if you run too much pressure you can actually start running out of fuel when you don't expect it.

Raise BFP - Extends injector range (lowers IDCs), but pump volume drops. If you have plenty of pump but not enough injector, bump up the BFP a bit. Raising the BFP too far will push the total pressure at the pump outlet too high while under boost, and the HPRV will open to bleed off pressure.

Lower BFP - Raises IDCs, but increases the pump's flow. If you have a pump that doesn't flow quite enough but are running large injectors with plenty of IDC headroom, drop the BFP a bit to get more flow from the pump.

Raise pump voltage - Makes most pumps happier (and some ecstatic) without changing IDCs or affecting the pressure relief point. Just a couple of extra volts (15v-16v) will dramatically raise the output volume of most pumps, as long as they can operate safely at the higher voltage.
 
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