Confusing timing issue

[mantega4g63]

So, when I did my timing i took off the crankshaft pulley to replace the leaking seal. I noticed before i took it off the crankshaft key was a degree below 9aclock, just one notch. But the pulley lined up correctly to the timing cover degree. Can anyone make sense of this? I put it back how it was and my idle is rough, i know i have a boost leak and other issues but i upgraded the roll stops, changed all water hoses + pump, and oil

[DSM1G90]

Since you had to take everything off to get to the seal, you should have had the belt sprocket timing marks aligned back up with the timing mark on the oil pump housing (which contains the main crank front seal) and the two cam alignment marks. And we have to include the autotensioner tab adjustments as well. These are what you really need to pay attention to, not the notch on the crank pulley along with the cover marks.

What I do before I do a teardown like that is to have the timing marks at TDC - just to make it easier on me when I reassemble knowing that I have the crank at TDC and redoing the timing is a breeze.

Sounds like your timing marks didn't all match up on when you put the belt back on - why of the bad idle.

[mantega4g63]

Did all of that, everything lined up but the key.
Going to take a timing light to it soon

[Custom GSX]

It might make more sense of it you might try looking at a haynes manuel as well.

[DSM1G90]

Guess what? I just thought of this.

I bet your Harmonic Balancer pulley is beginning to fall apart.

The outer part of the pulley is beginning to slip around the inner section causing this unique key placement issue. Thus, you're timing the unit on a mark on the pulley that is not in its original place. you're timing it very retarded and not knowing it.

The rubber is getting tired and not holding the two metal sections in their respective places.

Check this one out. - good luck .. DSM

[mantega4g63]

Originally Posted by DSM1G90

Guess what? I just thought of this.

I bet your Harmonic Balancer pulley is beginning to fall apart.

The outer part of the pulley is beginning to slip around the inner section causing this unique key placement issue. Thus, you're timing the unit on a mark on the pulley that is not in its original place. you're timing it very retarded and not knowing it.

The rubber is getting tired and not holding the two metal sections in their respective places.

Check this one out. - good luck .. DSM

This is an excellent post/response, sounds like this would be my issue. Any other ideas though?

[pauleyman]

It sounds like you guys are talking about ignition timing and mechanical timing as if they are the same thing. Mechanical timing has nothing to do with the harmonic balancer. The marks on the sprockets/pulleys have to be right underneath the cover. There are no exceptions. The key doesn't matter either. It just keeps the sprocket and plate in line. The plate does have to go on correctly, there is only one correct way. You have no way to change ignition timing on a 97 so a bad harmonic balancer wouldn't cause this problem because you didn't change ignition timing. Double check your timing marks, they are probably wrong. Double check your tension also. This is not a shot but are you 100% sure you know how to complete this job correctly? If you're not 100% sure I'd get some help.

[mantega4g63]

I'm 90% sure but ive had help from the start from my dad who restores cars and used to own his own shop. Hes old school but knows his stuff no doubt. The key was out of alignment the whole time but the pulley lines up right, and cams are correct on timing along with the oil pump. We went by the haynes manual, so idk its clearly an issue with my car

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by mantega4g63

I'm 90% sure but ive had help from the start from my dad who restores cars and used to own his own shop. Hes old school but knows his stuff no doubt. The key was out of alignment the whole time but the pulley lines up right, and cams are correct on timing along with the oil pump. We went by the haynes manual, so idk its clearly an issue with my car

What do you mean that the crankshaft key was out of alignment. It slides into the groove in the crank and the pullies slide over it. There is only one way for it to fit in the crank and only one way for the pullies to fit on it. The separator plate is the only thing that can be put on wrong.

[DSM1G90]

balancer wouldn't cause this problem because you didn't change ignition timing

True, if he's using the marks on the block itself, but if using the marks on the BELT COVER, then his timing would be off if the HB has started to slip.

[pauleyman]

How is it even possible to do that. The harmonic balancer and cover are removed to do this job.

[bryanwheat]

Originally Posted by pauleyman

How is it even possible to do that. The harmonic balancer and cover are removed to do this job.

I think some people are confusing the cam timing with ignition timing. That is the only reason that i could think people could some how relate the mark on the timing cover with installing a timing belt.

[pauleyman]

Yup and even better there is no ignition timing adjustment.

[DSM1G90]

Some of us do have a CAS unit that needs to be adjusted when doing base timing.

What the OP needs to do is go back to square one since he has the cover off: Get all marks aligned back up -both crank sprocket and cam sprockets (and BS sprocket marks if used) and see if there is any differences with the marks on the sprockets all aligning up to their respective marks and go from there...and not worry on that fool crankshaft key since it's not' going to move or go anywhere.

DSM

[pauleyman]

Some of us do have a CAS unit that needs to be adjusted when doing base timing.

I'm assuming the OP does not with a 2g car. I agree, check the marks.

[zanderson]

I would double check you r mechanical timing, but you probably have it right since it runs. Most likely your CAS kust needs adjusted. You can either use you timing marks on you timiming cover like it sounds like you did to set it to 5°you or you can use an adjustable timing light and set it 5°a and adjust thr CAS till your cam gear marks line up exactly. Ill post a link so you can see what I'm talking about.

[pauleyman]

2g's do not have an adjustable CAS unless one was added. I assume he does not have one.

[zanderson]

How to set base timing WITHOUT using a lower timing cover

Also make sure you groundimg out your timing conector when setting your setting this

[Alan11]

It has to be mechanical timing. On 2g's a timing light is not needed and I am sure he didn't touched the cas to replace the t-belt.. if timing marks are 100% fine then look elsewere.. boost leaks, spark plugs/wires..
Pics of the marks would help a lot!