White 'exhaust' - not coolant <Oil Drain Kinked>

[XiKeiyaZI]

Very simple question, likely shouldn't even be asked, but I'm overly paranoid with my vehicles and when I notice something my mind jumps to the absolute worst possible conclusion.

The temperature is changing, dropping from the hellish 100+'s down into the cool 47-55's in the mornings. As the season changes I've been noticing something strange about the Talon. (She's a 6 bolt, by the way, for those who don't want to check the profile.) It seems that in early mornings when I first start her up, she puffs out noticeable amounts of white/gray smoke. She runs fine, doesn't get hot, doesn't stall, doesn't surge (well...she fights to find her idle after a cold startup due to displacement and CAM selection, but nothing bad. Always been this way), but there are just these small random puffs of whitish exhaust. After the car has warmed up and been running a bit this ceases happening.

The smell of the exhaust when it's doing this is very exhausty. Cool word, right? It doesn't smell a thing like coolant, just plain ole' good solid exhaust. Not too much fuel. No fluids. No oil. Just.. exhaust. My question is - Should I blame it on the weather being cooler? Is it as simple as condensation forming in the exhaust overnight and being heated up and evaporated out of the exhaust? Last time compression was checked it was absolutely perfect.

So, I likely have answered my own question but I'd just like to see if I can get a little feedback or maybe someone else with a perfectly healthy engine that's experiencing the same thing (or if it's dying) can chime in and share their words.

 

[mchustle]

Mine personally always has the same thing happen on cool mornings, and it runs perfect I say condensation is about what it boils down to shouldn't be anything to worry about.

 

[Jeff99GS]

Yeah that sounds like condensation evaporating to me. Every car does that on a cool morning. I wouldn't be too wooried about it.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Good good. I just enjoy second opinions before I get anal and pull the head just to find out that no, 24psi on a 16g with ARP's and a metal HG was had not blown my HG.

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

Breathe Kei

 

[92AWDHX40]

Sounds normal, even with my bmw.

 

[MrBoxx]

Sounds normal, but just to be sure, check the shaft play on the turbo.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

^ Good idea. I just installed this 16g. It had zero shaft play, in or out. I'm running it on oil alone (Standard 60 second idle period after driving/boosting), as all of my coolant>turbo provisions were removed upon installation of my Bullseye T04B which was an oil-cooled only cartridge. If I'm burning coolant from the turbo, well, hahaha. That'd be wonderful considering it should be dry. But I completely get you. I hadn't even thought to check the turbo for bad seals. who knows, Justin may be getting a 16g in from me sometime soon.

 

[JusMX141]

Morning "smoke" which hangs in the air (not steam) is normally valve seals. Oil seeping past a seal has all night to run down the stem of a valve where it's burned almost immediately after the engine is started. A turbo's cartridge will drain totally overnight, so there's little to no chance of this being the result of a turbine seal leak.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Don't tell me that. The last thing I want to do right now is pull the head. =/ I was completely content with leveling that it was condensation based on the much cooler temperatures we are having. Now I'm going to want to replace valves, seals, and likely the entire damned valve train now.

 

[JusMX141]

Well this is assuming you're able to tell the difference between the steam which basically all cars make on a cool, damp morning and actual smoke. Smoke should have some odor- the steam will just smell like normal exhaust and dissipate rather quickly.

Unfortunately there isn't really a good way to read exhaust valve seal leakage without pulling the exhaust manifold away from the head and peering into the ports. It won't show up on spark plugs because the oil is not reaching the combustion chamber.

Are you feeding that 16G from the filter housing? If so, are you using a restrictor? You should be.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well this is assuming you're able to tell the difference between the steam which basically all cars make on a cool, damp morning and actual smoke. Smoke should have some odor- the steam will just smell like normal exhaust and dissipate rather quickly.

Unfortunately there isn't really a good way to read exhaust valve seal leakage without pulling the exhaust manifold away from the head and peering into the ports. It won't show up on spark plugs because the oil is not reaching the combustion chamber.

Are you feeding that 16G from the filter housing? If so, are you using a restrictor? You should be.

Haha. Well, it smells as if it is exhaust with no oil smells, nor is it tinged blueish in any way. As I'll be removing the exhaust manifold soon to switch from a 1G to a 2G mani, I'll check then and determine if I'll go ahead and build a new head.

As for the line, well... I'd have to say yes on that, though, it's not a 'restrictor' as advertised. With the combo of an inline filter and a series of fittings from the line to the turbo which are progressively downsizing, it's not a direct nor wide open pathway from the OFH to the turbo. I was aware and cautious of this when I installed the turbo as my oil pressure in the mornings ranges in the 80's.

 

[JusMX141]

MHI turbos want no more than 48psi at the inlet, so anything you do to get the pressure down would be better for you. Even the T25's are restricted from the filter housing at the factory.

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[XiKeiyaZI]

MHI turbos want no more than 48psi at the inlet, so anything you do to get the pressure down would be better for you. Even the T25's are restricted from the filter housing at the factory.

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Yeah, I was aware that it was somewhere in the 40's, but that's good to have that exact number under my belt now. As for the 2G stock restrictor, I had no idea about that, to be honest. Thanks for that!

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Problem found!

So I noticed that it was smoking when I got home, so I hopped out and started checking around.. and I found the culprit. Now, Jus, you tell me in your professional opinion how bad the damage may be to this 16g now.

My return line has somehow collapsed to the point of being 1/4 as large as it should be, thus in my mind, not allowing the return flow to be greater than the feed flow. This would increase oil pressure in the cartridge and thus push past the seals until the oil pressure dropped to a flow level lower than that of the return pressure or until the seals just up and gave out. At this point with it only smoking with cold starts and whatnot, what do you think the damage to the turbo is and what would you charge to repair it?

On a side note - I'll need to figure out what made the line pinch as it did with there being plenty of room, slack, and it's diameter being well beyond large enough.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Sounds like the seals are damaged, send him a pm and he'll take care of you.

 

[JusMX141]

Rubber return lines SUCK. Anyone who has one on their 16G or T25 should throw the damn thing away and just buy a factory 2G drain and make it work....they're $15 brand new and absolutely cannot kink shut.

If you caught it soon enough you may have gotten lucky, although if the oil passed between the seal and the housing it will burn to both parts, creating uneven sealing surfaces. The only solution at that point is a rebuild.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

^ I'm seeing that now. I just posted an ad looking for a -10an return setup so I can utilize the an provisions I already have installed, however, I'll likely grab a stock 2G oil return line that I saw listed in the classifieds if I don't get a bite by tonight.

So what would you charge for a seal replacement/rebuild? Feel free to share that in PM if you must. And for the record, this has only been happening for a matter for 2-3 days on very very limited driving. Likely 4 miles a day.

 

[JusMX141]

I wouldn't even screw with a -10AN unless you had to. Way overpriced when you're running an OEM-spec turbo, and they're basically just a piece of rubber hose with steel mesh on the outside. They can still kink if you're not careful.

Don't overpay for a 2G drain- like I said they're less than $15 new from Extreme PSI...you could probably get one at your local dealer and pay more but save the shipping. A 2G drain will need the holes on the upper flange slotted to fit a 16G turbo, a 1G drain will not...but the 1G drains are a steel line with an aluminum flex that is prone to cracking from vibration; a 2G drain is all aluminum tubing with steel flanges.

Rebuild pricing and service description is listed in the Freelance ad; of course there are always possible upgrades which we may speak of when/if the time comes.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Sounds like 2G return is the way to go. I've had nightmares with 1G lines cracking, so I tend to stay away from them. When you say 'slotted' do you mean drilling it out to accommodate the mounting holes or..? I've honestly never held the two side by side.

 

[JusMX141]

"Slot" as in "elongate". What would take you an hour to do with a drill would take 28 seconds with a die grinder and a carbide bit.

 

[Jeff99GS]

A hard oil return is best but if you are using a rubber return line, you can slid a coil spring around the hose. The spring will stop the hose from kinking.

 

[honda_burner]

I wouldn't even screw with a -10AN unless you had to. Way overpriced when you're running an OEM-spec turbo, and they're basically just a piece of rubber hose with steel mesh on the outside. They can still kink if you're not careful.

Don't overpay for a 2G drain- like I said they're less than $15 new from Extreme PSI...you could probably get one at your local dealer and pay more but save the shipping. A 2G drain will need the holes on the upper flange slotted to fit a 16G turbo, a 1G drain will not...but the 1G drains are a steel line with an aluminum flex that is prone to cracking from vibration; a 2G drain is all aluminum tubing with steel flanges.

Rebuild pricing and service description is listed in the Freelance ad; of course there are always possible upgrades which we may speak of when/if the time comes.

hey, so i have a small 16g but my car came with a 2g oil return attached to a 14b by one bolt (dont ask). so i drilled out the holes so they fit onto the turbo flange but my question is will it be ok since the pipe diameter is larger than the original spec for the 1g pipe? thank you

 

[nek]

^^ It will be fine...

 

[bryTSi]

Can I use a 2G oil drain on a 1G? Does it require modification?