Location of MAP IAT and catch can on 2g IM speed density

[Heat]

Hi,

About to buy the combo pack from ecm for going speed density. I want to make sure I buy everything I need beforehand so I'm not waiting around for parts once I get half way into it.

1) On the 2g IM, after removing the stock MDP sensor, what goes in there? As I understand certain MAP sensors will fit into that location which is fine.

What about this piece from RRE?

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/mdp_adapter/mdp_adapter003.jpg

That's the IAT they have stuck in there.

Seems to me I can just get this part, put the IAT in that location and mount the MAP sensor to the firewall and run a boost source to it (I know about the dos and donts for the MAP).

This avoids having to weld a bung into the UICP for the IAT which I desperately want to avoid doing.

Am I missing anything here?

2) What do you do with the catch can setup once the intake pipe is removed? Right now I have the pcv valve and the crank case breather run to the catch can and the output of that running to the intake pipe. I've checked some threads but they all assume you're running the intake pipe to route it to.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[tenn-gsx]

That will not work. The IAT has to be exposed to direct airflow. Now I have something that will probably work as a bolt on solution for you. If your interested then send me your email via im and ill send you a pic. The map gets added to a vacuum port that sees boost and vacuum.

 

[snowborder714]

The sensor in the RRE picture is a MAP sensor, FYI.

 

[Heat]

The sensor in the RRE picture is a MAP sensor, FYI.

You know I had thought about this before which would make everything make sense but it looks like an IAT so I just assumed.

tenn-gsx sending you a PM.

Anyone have any tips for the catch can?

 

[bsbllfit7]

no need to run an IAT, If you need proof from someone other then a semi noob ask Team English Racing. Im sure everyone has heard of them and they have proof of it not being necessary to run an IAT

 

[tenn-gsx]

On this subject. Anyone have a closeup pic of the mdp port on a factory manifold? Without the mdp installed.

 

[bsbllfit7]

without the mdp installed but with a map installed? or just with the mdp out and nothing there

 

[tenn-gsx]

Nothing there at all.

 

[bsbllfit7]

i can probably do that later if someone else doesnt respond before then. Im at work and wont be able to do it for 5 or 6 hours

 

[tenn-gsx]

no need to run an IAT, If you need proof from someone other then a semi noob ask Team English Racing. Im sure everyone has heard of them and they have proof of it not being necessary to run an IAT

While it is not necessary running it it will give you a more stable tune. It is a good idea to run it if you have the time and resources to do so.

 

[bsbllfit7]

Not to detract from what your trying to do but when i was talking to english racing they said there was no proof that anyone has brought forward that shows that the IAT benefits the tune. There is a large discussion/battle on this between English Racing and another tuner over on the evo forums

 

[tenn-gsx]

It is fact that the a/f ratio will be richer when the temps rise and the ecu cannot see this. Is it a big deal? Not really. But you will get more stable a/f ratios and that makes for a more consistent tune. The only thing that it may really cause an issue with is that someone tuning in the summer may have to re tune for the winter because the a/f will be leaner than they wanted, or were able to maintain w/o knock. I'm not saying that you HAVE to have the IAT. I'm saying that it keeps things more in line. Particularly if you have an inefficient inter cooler or large temperature swings from one season to another. It will keep you from having to adjust your tune as much.

 

[bsbllfit7]

haha im not gonna pretend like i know the science i was just throwing the info out there that prominent shops/tuners see no need to run it. Take that for what you will that was my info i was leaving.

 

[Dert]

If buying the ecm package, I suggest getting their plug n play SD cable as well, It makes the install a breeze with no need to re-wire anything, all you do is plug your SD MAP sensor into the harness and plug the harness into the factory MAF plug and your done, took me all of 2 min to set up my SD with it, and I will add I currently do not have my IAT sensor installed, you just have to make sure you zero out the SDTempWeighting table in link. As far as removing the stock MDP, I simply unplugged mine, left it installed where it is, and ran a 4" vac line to where the bov vac goes into the intake, and moved the bov vac line to the "P" line off the throttlebody. I had a threaded hole in the top of my TB that I used to secure my sensor to. Sensor doesnt move at all and everything works great.:thumb

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[snowborder714]

Gary, I'm not sure if feeding the BOV from a tee'd throttle body line is the best idea. If I were you, I'd get one of the RRE MDP adapters and thread a vacuum nipple into it to feed the MAP sensor.

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[Dert]

Gary, I'm not sure if feeding the BOV from a tee'd throttle body line is the best idea. If I were you, I'd get one of the RRE MDP adapters and thread a vacuum nipple into it to feed the MAP sensor.

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Ok Brian sounds good, I will look into getting one, just for my own curiosity and others who also may not know, why is it not a good idea? The only reason I can forsee would be the BOV not operating properly due to not having an independant vacuum source, in wich so far mine is operating perfectly with no issues, but I dont want to damage anything so your info is appreciated.

 

[snowborder714]

I've never been a big fan of feeding an important part from the throttle body. If I have the option to use an intake manifold nipple, I will choose that first. Plus, I always recommend the bov to have its own vacuum source with no tees.

 

[1990AWD]

Not to detract from what your trying to do but when i was talking to english racing they said there was no proof that anyone has brought forward that shows that the IAT benefits the tune. There is a large discussion/battle on this between English Racing and another tuner over on the evo forums

You can run without an IAT, but it be so much better with it, plus, monitoring intake temps is always a good idea.

http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/sd101

 

[Heat]

I decided to just get the omni 4 bar that should plug and play in the factory MDP location.

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Seems cleaner doing it that way. I shouldn't need to mess with the MAF plug at all like this I'm hoping (using ceddy mods not link).

So, as far as the catch can goes I've seen some pics of people just running the crank case breather to one side and the pcv valve to the other side of it and calling it a day. I think in this case the pcv valve needs to have the valve always open or just replaced with a straight through piece.

 

[snowborder714]

This thread should help a bit.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

 

[97gst_spyder]

I used an OmniPower 4 bar, it great. Bolt in, factory harness too. $130 well spent.

On the IAT, my car would not run with out it. I run an Evo ECU also though.

As temp changes your tune will go off. So who ever said that it doesn't matter, it does. Unless you like driving a half-ass'ed tuned car.

I installed my IAT in the bend of the TB elbow, seems to work well for me.

 

[Dert]

I used an OmniPower 4 bar, it great. Bolt in, factory harness too. $130 well spent.

On the IAT, my car would not run with out it. I run an Evo ECU also though.

As temp changes your tune will go off. So who ever said that it doesn't matter, it does. Unless you like driving a half-ass'ed tuned car.

I installed my IAT in the bend of the TB elbow, seems to work well for me.

1) ECM tuning says it does not matter and you will be fine without an IAT sensor, I currently am not running mine yet and have not been for months, and I have no issues as I followed instructions by ECM to set it up without one, my car runs fine, although I do agree it is more wise to know what your temps are at

2) If your tune goes off when temps change, how does having a sensor that displays the temp gunna have an effect on the tune? Does link automatically change your tune for you while you drive when intake temps go up or down? If so I was unaware of that. I always figured the IAT displays what is going on with intake temps much as a WB says whats going on with A/F R's and its up to the user to tune accordingly.

 

[1990AWD]

1) ECM tuning says it does not matter and you will be fine without an IAT sensor, I currently am not running mine yet and have not been for months, and I have no issues as I followed instructions by ECM to set it up without one, my car runs fine, although I do agree it is more wise to know what your temps are at

2) If your tune goes off when temps change, how does having a sensor that displays the temp gunna have an effect on the tune? Does link automatically change your tune for you while you drive when intake temps go up or down? If so I was unaware of that. I always figured the IAT displays what is going on with intake temps much as a WB says whats going on with A/F R's and its up to the user to tune accordingly.

1) ECMTuning specifically says that you can run SD without an IAT, but it is MUCH better to have one if you can.

2) The temperature of the incoming air makes a huge difference on the density of the air coming into the engine, therefore affecting the tune because the ECU doesn't know the actual volume of air.

Quote from ECMTuning's website: "You can run speed density reasonably well without an IAT sensor at all if you have to. It is absolutely better to have one, no question about it."

 

[97gst_spyder]

Think of sprinting in cold air, vs hot air. Makes a huge difference.

My car would not run without ait installed. But I'm running the Evo 8 ecu.

I've read that a baro is nice to have in active weather areas, ie Florida, etc.

 

[Heat]

This thread should help a bit.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

Thanks for that link. Following found there answers my question.

On full race setups with no inlet pipe, crankcase evacuation options are obviously limited. Since there is no suction being applied to the crankcase, pressure will not be relieved until it exceeds atmospheric pressure plus any drops across the catch can(s), lines, and any filters. Because of this, you will want to run the largest-sized lines possible for the pressure to escape through, and use a large empty can with low-restriction filters open to the atmosphere.