15 psi @ 4500 hx35!

[DSM_ThuNDeR]

I have fully broken in my motor and just a couple of days I've decided its time to go WOT! I am extremely disappointed due to the turbo lag issue I'm getting with my SETUP. Im getting 15 Psi around 4200 in 1st and 2nd gear and in third its after 4500 . I thought I would receive 20 PSI around 3500 (with stock cams of course). I do have 280 duration cams but seriously... this laggy? Im not going to lie, top end does feel incredible but when I get on it at low rpms the car just feel like if it was N/T. Blow off valve is also VERY quiet (Greddy Type S). Here is a list of modifications that I think would be helpful:

2G:
Complete Six Bolt Swap (9_1 Wisecos w Eagle rods)
Mitsu MLS
ARP's
280 BC Cams (No Adj. Cam gears)
Punishment racing o2 Housing with 38mm Tial MSV wastegate
BEP Housing
Hx35 (8 blade)
GM MAF (blow thru)
ETS FMIC
T-Bolt Camps Everywhere!

Every time I try to start the car (when its cold) I get a pretty high idle around 2.5K RPMs and sometimes it surges. Once it gets to op temp, it idles fine.

I have conducted a boost leak test by applying air/pressure to the Compressor cover housing and with soapy water found out that the Idle Screw on the TB bubble up, also the TB seals might be out too as I got a couple of bubbles too. One thing that I'm kind of confused too is that if I move the throttle plate to WOT while conducting the test I hear the air pressure Different. Everything else checked out fine!

Once Im done applying constant air pressure for lets say for.... 3 mins, its only able to build CLOSE to 15psi but no more(I have a pretty big compressor). After I let off on putting air pressure, it bleeds off really quick!(10 secs drops about 7psi).

There are certainly two things that for some reason I'm leaning on what might be the culprit (wastegate or TB seals), but I would like some input on experiences in the past with a faulty wastegate or Leaky TB. ALSO my 2-step is suppose to let me build about close to 10 psi from a dead-stop, If I'm lucky I'll see 3psi at 5500.

Let me know if you had a similar situation and what ended up being at fault. Let me tell you guys, when I started reading and finding out what Holsets are really capable I was amazed and decided to go ahead and get rid of the tdo5h 20G for a HX35, but so far I'm not really a believer.

The 20G would definitely let me build boost before taking off and no extremely laggy issues. NOT SAYING THE TURBO might be the culprit, just wanted to point that out!

HELP! Thanks for reading such a long a$$ post, just wanted to give as much info as possible!

 

[1995gstr]

Sounds like your on the right track as far as leaks do a blt. It sounds odd to me because i see between 10 to 12psi with my 2 step and my hx40. My hx40 is also around full boost at 4500 not just starting to build boost. Im also in the bep housing .55.

 

[DSM_ThuNDeR]

Sounds like your on the right track as far as leaks do a blt. It sounds odd to me because i see between 10 to 12psi with my 2 step and my hx40. My hx40 is also around full boost at 4500 not just starting to build boost. Im also in the bep housing .55.

I would actually be ok if I saw full boost at 4500 IF I RAN A HX40, but since I'm running a HX35, shouldn't it be sooner? When I give it 40-70% throttle I cant even hear the dam BOV at low rpms (2.5-3.5k)!

Glad to hear your Holset setup is working, .

 

[tragdor]

Once Im done applying constant air pressure for lets say for.... 3 mins, its only able to build CLOSE to 15psi but no more(I have a pretty big compressor). After I let off on putting air pressure, it bleeds off really quick!(10 secs drops about 7psi).

That sounds like the issue man. You have a big boost leak. That's also why you are having such poor performance with how quickly boost builds. Your turbo is having to create much more flow than normal to get to 15psi. Find the boost leak and that should solve your problem. Also, I typically do the BLT with WOT only. Let us know what you find too.

 

[JusMX141]

Something's definitely wrong. TalonDave's old HX35 setup with the .70 a/r T3 housing, ERL manifold, and 139k-old stock 6-bolt saw full boost sooner than that.

Your BOV is not going to be as loud because of the ported compressor cover. Apparently surge protection also results in a quieter BOV.

 

[burkgonzo]

Boost leak test.

 

[T Series Boost]

Blow off valve is also VERY quiet (Greddy Type S)

Once Im done applying constant air pressure for lets say for.... 3 mins, its only able to build CLOSE to 15psi but no more(I have a pretty big compressor). After I let off on putting air pressure, it bleeds off really quick!(10 secs drops about 7psi).

There are certainly two things that for some reason I'm leaning on what might be the culprit (wastegate or TB seals),

The 20G would definitely let me build boost before taking off and no extremely laggy issues. NOT SAYING THE TURBO might be the culprit, just wanted to point that out!

HELP! Thanks for reading such a long a$$ post, just wanted to give as much info as possible!

Long shot, but maybe your blow off valve is opening up too early.. or you are getting a spike in boost that opens up the blow off valve. You can can try taking it out and sealing the opening and then see if you can build boost. Since you got a new turbo, wastegate might be set up wrong as well. You could also rig that up not to open, and take it for a quick spin to see if it builds boost.. just be careful obviously....

 

[niddydsm]

if you saw bubbles i would fix those gaskets first and try it again i would put money on the TB bein the issue

 

[DSM_ThuNDeR]

Boost leak test.

DID THAT! TB BISS SCREW AND REAR TB SEAL IS BAD (BUBBLE). But is that a good motive to give me an extremely bad of a lag?

HEY JUSTIN, I was just reading one of the threads you posted in regards to a missing Wastegate valve seat. Last time I removed my wastegate it seemed the SAME EXACT WAY, though mine is a msv Tial 38mm not the F38 or what ever tial wastegate that was! Could that be a possibility thats why Im getting such a slow boost response?

Im going outside RIGHT NOW to remove the dam thing and take a pic to let you guys know what I'm talking about.

Long shot, but maybe your blow off valve is opening up too early.. or you are getting a spike in boost that opens up the blow off valve. You can can try taking it out and sealing the opening and then see if you can build boost. Since you got a new turbo, wastegate might be set up wrong as well. You could also rig that up not to open, and take it for a quick spin to see if it builds boost.. just be careful obviously....

Well this bov was on a friends car before I put it on mine and worked just FINE. Thanks for the input!

 

[JusMX141]

HEY JUSTIN, I was just reading one of the threads you posted in regards to a missing Wastegate valve seat. Last time I removed my wastegate it seemed the SAME EXACT WAY, though mine is a msv Tial 38mm not the F38 or what ever tial wastegate that was! Could that be a possibility thats why Im getting such a slow boost response?

Im going outside RIGHT NOW to remove the dam thing and take a pic to let you guys know what I'm talking about.

Shit yeah man, that's like having your flapper hanging open on an internally-gated turbo. I'd get that remedied right away if you're pulling the gate off.

 

[turboboy4]

You might check your timing, My car acted horribly laggy after I installed my holset. My BOV I couldnt keep from surging and my car would chug and buck when I used my launch control. Found out my belt had jumped and timing was at least 1 tooth possibly two teeth in the retarded direction. Just and idea

 

[skatershawn]

as for the boost leak test.. check to see if anything is escaping through the valve cover and all those check valves are working right!
I had a HUGE boost leak through my break boost because of one of those valves wasn't stoping the positive pressure going through it!!

 

[LandoAWD]

Am I reading no fire ring up there?

 

[DSM_ThuNDeR]

Am I reading no fire ring up there?

You guys tell me! Im thinking I got JACKED!! Lets just say the person who built my motor has an 38 Tial MSV too.
Here are the pics:

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What you guys think???

 

[JusMX141]

I think your MVS is missing the valve seat.

 

[v8killer]

Looks like you found the problem.

 

[DSM_ThuNDeR]

Thanks to everyone for all the replies! I did remember last time I took the wastegate to get my punishment racing recirculated o2 housing RESURFACED I saw it that way, but thought that was normal.

If I had the o2 housing Setup for external, then I would of found out WAY sooner that was missing . Now my head can rest a lil bit. For sure, I'm ordering one today! Then its off to replace the T.B. seals, then TRACK!!!!!!

THANKS!!!!!

 

[brian9397gsx]

I was reading that and thinking it sounded like wastegate but Im late in the game seeing this. I just put TB seals in sunday I used the mil specs from stm have fun. one suggestion do the spring side first install your shaft and springs then throttle blade and save the tps side for very last trust me good luck

 

[thecman02]

Glad you figured out your problem. I was going to have to slap ya around... j/k. My friends old hx35 car would get mean amounts of boost and response way sooner than that. Heck my stock cammed hx40 had 20+psi by 4k.

 

[Love2xlr8]

ok so ive read this whole thing 3 times... i have the same problem as dsm thunder did but, i have my fire ring on my wg and i have performed multiple boost leak tests all with the same result. 15 psi held with no leaks anywhere.i just installed my hx35 about two weeks ago and was just under the impression it was supposed to be this laggy. 15 psi is not reached until 4800 -5k in 2nd then the wg opens and pulls like a mad dog till 7k. also in first gear if i nail it and go to 7k the wg doesnt even open up. im stumped...

 

[richard33]

ok so ive read this whole thing 3 times... i have the same problem as dsm thunder did but, i have my fire ring on my wg and i have performed multiple boost leak tests all with the same result. 15 psi held with no leaks anywhere.i just installed my hx35 about two weeks ago and was just under the impression it was supposed to be this laggy. 15 psi is not reached until 4800 -5k in 2nd then the wg opens and pulls like a mad dog till 7k. also in first gear if i nail it and go to 7k the wg doesnt even open up. im stumped...

what backhousing and manifold?
With the stock baackhousing and an open t3 manifold the turbo will be pretty laggy. I would see full boost at around 5k (35psi).

 

[Black'95]

Also check very thoroughly for exhaust leaks before the turbo. I just found some on my car that were costing me 500-700RPMs of spool time! Much better now.

 

[Love2xlr8]

Yes its the stock t3 housing and an open non twin scroll manifold. I don't even see and boost until 4500-5k. Once it starts to boost tho it hits 15 quick.

 

[Black'95]

Yes its the stock t3 housing and an open non twin scroll manifold. I don't even see and boost until 4500-5k. Once it starts to boost tho it hits 15 quick.

That'll definitely slow your spool down, but it still seems a bit slow, even so. Check out post #2 here for some examples:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/362193-holset-turbos-newbs.html

 

[-red97rum-]

You guys tell me! Im thinking I got JACKED!! Lets just say the person who built my motor has an 38 Tial MSV too.
Here are the pics:

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What you guys think???

There's your culprit right there. Replace that valve seat and you'll see much faster spool up.