Blown head gasket?

[TheWanderer]

I went to check out a 92 TSI FWD tonight that I want to buy. Has a bunch of mods done already (16g, large FMIC, new aluminum radiator, 550cc injectors, 2.5" hard piping, greddy BOV, 3" MAF, 190lph walbro), and is running what I'm told is 14psi boost on an ebay MBC. Recently had a new timing belt installed.

Its a nice car overall, but I have some concerns and questions:

The car is running rich, that much I know. The current owner has a 3" MAF without a translator installed, so I know it will need that for certain. I have a feeling it also needs new plugs and wires. Also needs an intake and exhaust done to finish up stage 1 and 2 mods.

The car sat for about 4 years, and the current owner recently dropped the tank and drained the old gas, filling it with about 5 gallons of 93.

Now here's the tricky part:

Its hard to start, cranks slow, and dies. Once it does start and run (about the 3rd try), it idles fine. As soon as I step on the gas, it stumbles/sputters and dies. The stumble clears up around 2k. At first when i started it, it acted like it had a miss or dead cylinder as I got on the gas, all the while sputtering. It came to a point where I had to actually double step the gas and brake while holding at 2k to 2500 rpm and slipping the clutch to get it moving. It pulled about 25psi vaccuum at idle on the aftermarket boost gauge, and from what I understand, that is normal.

Once it warmed up, it ran a bit better. Still stumbled and sputtered until about 2k rpm though. So I took it for a ride, and it still hesitated, then all of the sudden it kicked into boost around 3k-4k rpm, and BAM! knocked me back in my seat (which I loved by the way )

I looked back in my mirror and saw a trail of bluish white smoke, a heavy cloud of it at that, for about a 1/4 mile up the road behind me. This has me worried.

Could the smoke be a bad head gasket? I didn't see any coolant in the oil or oil in the coolant. Car wasn't overheating at all, so I don't know what would be causing this.

I did unplug the stock MAF, and the idle dropped a bit, but the car didnt want to die when you got on the gas once the MAF was unplugged. Seems like it could partially be a bad MAF (it was a junkyard maf from what the owner told me, recently put in).

I did read something about this possibly being a bad turbo as well? Something about the seals being shot? Any thoughts? It seems unlikely considering the turbo only has about 4k miles on it (or so I'm told). Not sure if its a real 16g or an Ebay one though, and from what I understand the Ebay ones are junk and are known for this kind of stuff?

I plan to go back Saturday with the logger and see what I can pull up.. Also going to try and get my hands on a loaner MAF Translator and see if I can't lean it out a bit, at least enough to drive it. Has a few other minor issues that need to be addressed as well before I can drive it. The intake side PCV hose needs capped, the new electric fans need hooked up to power, and some other minor items. Also planning on doing a compression test and leakdown test to see what I come up with. As for boost leaks, everything looks pretty tight, and all of the hard piping has been sealed with rubber cement at the couplers (why? )

Any info you guys can provide is much appreciated. He wants $1800 for the car, but I can't see spending that much as it sits honestly, and I can most likely get it cheaper. Any thoughts on what to offer? I was thinking somewhere around a grand myself...

 

[dsmer1994]

I may not be a whole lot of help but the turbo is the only thing I can imagine especially with that smoke you described. take off the turbo intake and check and see if its blown. If it doesnt over heat and there's no oil in the coolant i doubt its the headgasket. it takes like 2 minutes to take off the intake and you will know if it is blown. hope this helps somewhat.

 

[crashman1972]

Doubt it is a head gasket blue smoke is oil not water water is white. As long as it set it could have nasty fuel still in the fuel filter and lines injectors will have to be ran quiet some time to start firing healthy again. The whole smoke thing might clear might not hard to say without looking. How was the rest of the car?

 

[fran_drivertsi]

If you did a pull and saw buncha smoke, that either means it has one of the following: lots of blow-by, low compression, burns oil, bad turbo seals, or leaky headgasket.

I'd still say that you can pick it up for around a grand or so, 1200tops. It all depends on what condition the body and interior is in etc etc.

Post some pics. (engine bay too) See if you can get a pic of the smoke. Or a video.

 

[TheWanderer]

One thing I should mention is that after I unplugged the stock MAF, the white/blue smoke wasn't pouring out of it. I didn't do a pull with it, because we had to tow the car up his driveway (nice long hill) with his truck to get it back to the parking space it was in. He's going to try and do a pull in the morning with the stock MAF unplugged to see if the car still bogs down/stumbles until 2k rpm, then he is gonna let me know. God help me if its timing related Wouldn't surprise me one bit if it is, considering these cars tend to be a beast of their own when it comes to timing, and not many mechanics (outside of the dealership and straight up DSM mech's) know how to time the car properly...the car shook like a tank the first 2-3 times I revved it up after I started it the first time. My 3kgt VR4 did the same thing and wouldnt fire (turned out to be timing AND a fragged piston from detonation)...

The fuel filter has been replaced, that was first thing I noticed about the car when we popped the hood.

Overall, the body/paint wasn't really terrible, about an 8/10 I'd say. The passenger side had a decent dent in the roof, but it looks like I can push it out if I drop the headliner. I'm planning on yanking the headliner anyway, since someone prior to this guy fiberglassed "TSi" into it in giant 3D letters before they recovered it The wiper arms need repainted (like every DSM I see around here it seems). Front bumper has paint flaking on the driver side because some idiot with a roll back couldn't load or unload the car right

Other than the headliner, the interior was 9.9 out of 10. One small crack about the size of a silver dollar dead center on the dash on the passenger side. I figure I can use some flexible bumper repair stuff as a temp fix so it doesn't get any worse...

Here's a link to the CL ad where I found it. Lists all the major mods done to it. Has 123xxx miles on it. Was a Florida car, so no rust on the frame at all (1-2 small spots of surface rust in the paint where it flaked away).

http://scranton.craigslist.org/cto/1905895268.html

Is it wrong that I fell in love with the car as soon as I saw it? I really want to take it, but not knowing whats causing this smoking issue (again, its white smoke with a blue tint, makes me think oil and/or water), I'm afraid to really offer him much more than a grand tops (more along the lines of $900ish)...It pulls great when its not stumbling, so I'm wondering if it is just because the GM MAF isn't set up and the car isn't tuned for the 550cc injectors...

BTW, DSMer, whereabouts is Utica? I spend 95% of my year down in Hastings/Kearney, would be great to find a group of local DSM nuts to get together with Call it a brain trust of sorts

 

[TheWanderer]

One other question I have on this car. when you first start it up, the belts squeal for about 15-20 seconds, then just stop. All the belts have been replaced, so nearest I can figure is that either one is too loose... Anyone have any belt deflection data for these cars, so I can measure it?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

One other question I have on this car. when you first start it up, the belts squeal for about 15-20 seconds, then just stop. All the belts have been replaced, so nearest I can figure is that either one is too loose... Anyone have any belt deflection data for these cars, so I can measure it?

It is most likely your alternator belt. It is the most common cause of belt squeal most of the time. Try to tighten it a little bit to see if that helps. It also helps to clean the pulleys too since they might have some greasy residue built up causing the belt to slip. Good luck

 

[TheWanderer]

Cool, that's what I was thinking...

Any more ideas on the blueish white smoke guys? Got my logger today, so I can pull fuel trims, etc tomorrow when I head back up there... Hopefully I'll have a MAF translator by the end of the day today so I can put it on and try to get the car tuned for the 550cc injectors.

could the exhaust be causing the car to choke off when I get on the gas? Its still stock (why I don't know, planning to redo it ASAP), and with the 16g running 10 psi boost and the 550cc injectors with the 190 lph pump...

 

[90tsiPA]

If you were a bit closer I'd check it out with you and let you use my MAF-T. Still could use my MAF-t if you can't find one closer but its kinda a hike. When I got my car one of the pistons was cracked and It actually ran decently (still spun all four in the rain ) but it smoked when it started getting in boost. The strange thing about your situation is that it still reading good vacuum which timing, bottom end problems, or a headgasket would more than likely affect. The sputtering more than likely is the 550's with no tuning. Compression test should answer your smoking problem. If its the turbo your aren't too far from blouch turbo for a rebuild. As far as price goes the shell looks to be in exceptional condition but pending a compression test I wouldn't spend more than $1200-$1500 but see what the guy will take.

 

[TheWanderer]

Just won a Maf-T V2.01 on Ebay for $135 in North Wales Hoping to go pick it up tonight or early tomorrow morning. Saves me $10 for shipping

If it turns out to be the turbo seals, I'm probably going to just buy a new turbo. It has an Ebay turbo on it I believe, and I saw a real MHI 16g in the classifieds here on the forum for $325 shipped. Gonna offer him about a grand, but I won't go higher than 1200 on it most likely... Still needs rear pads/rotors, plugs and wires, and half a dozen other small (but somewhat pricey) repairs to pass inspection...

Woot! just got an SAFC II for $50 used, with all the stuff included (wiring harness, user manual, original box, etc).

Now its time to learn how to tune with it :yikes:

 

[TheWanderer]

Just a quick update, and I could use you guys' opinions:

Went to check the car out more thoroughly today. Ran a compression test. 140 across the board, leak down test results in 180. I'm thinking its time for a refresh on the motor (AFAIK, service point on compression is 142). Still no oil in coolant and vice versa. Any thoughts?

Turbo has shaft play. Car is still smoking, but its more oily smoke. Heavy blue cloud. Leaning towards turbo seals being shot, as you all suggested. Its either a VERY good knockoff, or an actual 16g. Had TD05H cast into the side of the housing, but nothing else (no serial number tag that I saw).

Fuel trims are 226 low, 164 mid, and 164 high via Palm'n'Stein. Running 36ish on the AFR via palm'n'stein. Pig rich Any ideas?

Made an offer of $950. He's going to get back to me this weekend and let me know, but I doubt he is going to take it. Was I right in offering that much do you guys think? I see about 2k worth of parts and labor that still needs done with it, and about 500 or so just to get it semi reliable (running low boost til I get the exhaust done). I'm thinking it was a fair offer.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Tuning get a wideband and a datalogger if you dont already, my car ran with t he maft but no way to tune it until i got the datalogger and palm.

 

[TheWanderer]

I have a datalogger already. Picked one up from Eric over at 1glink.com. Also have an SAFC II that I picked up yesterday, and am hoping to be able to go and get the MAF translator I just won yesterday on ebay here in the next few days. I figure I'll use the MAF-T to get a good base tune on the car so I can at least drive it back home, then I have someone local that is willing to help me fine tune it using the SAFC.

 

[92AWDHX40]

you can install the maft and run just fine like any other car without a tune. safc for fine tuning but i never got into that thing the maft worked out fine, datalogger is a awesome for me, and the wideband is a must for turbocharged cars. When you tune its for knock, less is better whats when it comes in handy. wideband and a way to tune the air fuel mixture, so you dont run lean. I did my car ass backwards, now im good.

 

[TheWanderer]

Wideband is a planned upgrade when I do the exhaust in the spring, IF I get the car that is. The owner prior to the current one did things ass backwards and slapped a turbo on first chance he got, without upgrading anything else (besides UICP and BOV) it seems. Current owner put in the Dejon piping, large FMIC, 4 row (?) aluminum radiator, Faze boost gauge, and most of the other correct mods.

First thing I plan on doing with the car if I get it is to hook up the aftermarket fans that came with it. Then its a new turbo, followed by gas gauge repair and a basic MAFT tune. Then from there its just a matter of tune up items (plugs, wires) and the other maintenence items that need done (rear pads/rotors, etc).