1G Stalling when hot

[jenjen]

Hi guys,

I have recently changed the radiator, the Iac, the Oxygen Sensor, the fuel filter & the darn car still stalls when idoling in really hot temperatures.

I think next it will be the MAF or the ECU, but I'm worried that won't help the problem. Other than that she runs great, but doesn't like heat.

What do you guys think it is, because I'm running out of options and miss driving my car.

Please help!
Sincerely
Jennifer

 

[1995gsx20g]

in what situation will the car stall?

does it start up fine right away after it stalls?

 

[jenjen]

The car starts great, sometimes feels like chocking but always starts. It stalls when it's really hot out and it sits in traffic or at a light. It starts to die and just shuts down. It does start back up, but then wants to stall and die again a few feet down the road.

 

[1995gsx20g]

what is the warm idle rpm?
is it an automatic or standard?
are there any other issues with the car?

 

[jenjen]

The warm idle temp is at 700-900.
Its automatic
no other problems
it has no turbo

When sitting in extreme heat like it has been this past week with temp's up to 46 with humidex,the car stalls 2 minutes after ,but on colder days when it heats up and im in traffic it takes longer to stall

 

[1995gsx20g]

hmm..

when it is idling does it feel smooth and steady?

how does the car react while idling in park and you turn accessories on like rear window defroster, headlights, a/c and turning the wheel and putting load on the motor with the power steering pump?

is it more likely to stall or less?
does the idle drop a little then go higher when turning accessories on?

 

[jenjen]

It idles reall smooth & steady until it dies.

When its idling in park it starts cutting out as well, but I never tried putting the accessories on. We have put only the radio on(which is new by the way with speakers) but does nothing when engine not running.

I'm really hoping it's something small. Other then that the car runs amazing & its so much fun to drive, but man does it hate the heat right now until I can fix the problem of it stalling.

I just dont know what else it can be

 

[1995gsx20g]

i would check what happens with the accessories..

im pretty sure you called it from the start, "choking".
i believe that when the car stalls it is because it is not letting enough air in.. i would check isc resistance when HOT even though the isc is new.

check this thread out http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/355369-isc-motor-electrical-qs.html

also check out your closed throttle switch

your biss might not be properly adjusted

this site tells you how to check alot of things.. vfaq.com

 

[jenjen]

I felt from the start that it's not getting enough air somewhere. I have changed the IAC Sensor & the oxygen sensor which I thought would help. That's why now I'm thinking the MAF is a problem.

Now I don't mean to sound like a chick (which I am), but what is the ISC motor?

 

[1995gsx20g]

i reread the hole thread and was wondering if you are on the gas pedal when the car wants to die again down the road?

but then wants to stall and die again a few feet down the road.

 

[jenjen]

isn't this the one I just had changed to new?

The major issue is when I'm sitting in traffic and it just stalls, but sometimes it does seem to do that exactly when I start to press on the gas. It jolts until it drives normally again. Then next time I stop, it wants to die again. It feels like something is blocking or like the gas is not flowing properly

a fellow talon owner told me to check the overflow protection sensor.
Do you know what that is or have you heard of that?
Where is this located?

 

[1995gsx20g]

yes it is but i would test it just to make sure its working properly when hot. The coils in the ISC tend to expand and open up when heated.

isn't this the one I just had changed to new?

this symptom is leading me towards your TPS. i would check the closed throttle switch and make sure the TPS is properly adjusted/fully functional. TPS operation is very critical to an automatic transmission.

but sometimes it does seem to do that exactly when I start to press on the gas. It jolts until it drives normally again. Then next time I stop, it wants to die again. It feels like something is blocking or like the gas is not flowing properly

i have never heard of that nor can i related the name to something i know but then again i don't live in canada

a fellow talon owner told me to check the overflow protection sensor.
Do you know what that is or have you heard of that?
Where is this located?

does the throttle pedal stick?

 

[jenjen]

what do you mean by " does the throttle pedal stick? " sorry...I feel dumbbut I have to ask

I hate to say it, but I feel like I should sell the car. As much as I dont want to, it's becoming very costly because of this problem. Especially since everything I have changed is not fixing it. I love my car, but I'm so frustrated because no one can find the problem

 

[1995gsx20g]

don't feel dumb, 3 years ago i was under my gs doing my first oil change ever and never been under a car in my life and stripped the drain plug because i was upside down and went the wrong way but i can say now that i have learned more than i can explain from this forum.

does the throttle pedal get stuck/jammed closed? you go to step on it and it doesn't move until you step on it harder.

I hate to say it, but I feel like I should sell the car. As much as I dont want to, it's becoming very costly because of this problem. Especially since everything I have changed is not fixing it. I love my car, but I'm so frustrated because no one can find the problem

get used to it

when YOU fix it yourself its great to drive it again

 

[tragdor]

The ISC does sound like a possibility. The ISC stands for the "Idle Speed Control" and it does exactly that, helps to control the idle speed by regulating how much air is allowed to pass into the intake (when bypassing the throttle plate). It's a common thing to go out on the turbo cars at least, and is pretty easy to test if you have a Multimeter. Which by the way if you don't, you need to get one. I'm not sure if the testing procedures are the same between the N/A (naturally aspirated) and Turbo DSMs though. But to test it, you can check the resistance between the different pins. Let me know if you would like more information and I'll add to it.

 

[jenjen]

do you honestly think I should keep trying to find out the problem and have it fixed without spending a fortune, or you think I should sell the car?
I bought it for 2000$ in sept 2009 and since then I have changed
New starter
new alternator
new radiator
new Isc motor
new oxygen sensor
new timing belt
new sterio and speakers
new waterpump
new fuel filter

I will tell my mechanic about the tps operation and see there
He did clean the throtle port but didn't take it out to do it
I dont know what else to think it can be...Im pulling my hair out because were in an extreme heat wave in montreal and I can't drive it more then a few feet without stalling.
uuuggggghhhh!

 

[tragdor]

do you honestly think I should keep trying to find out the problem and have it fixed without spending a fortune, or you think I should sell the car?
I bought it for 2000$ in sept 2009 and since then I have changed
New starter
new alternator
new radiator
new Isc motor
new oxygen sensor
new timing belt
new sterio and speakers
new waterpump
new fuel filter

Are you sure that the ISC was changed? Your problems sound related to that. I wouldn't say that selling the car is necessary. It sounds like you have replaced most of the typical things that will go out. Stick with it, I'm sure you are close to solving the problem. Another issue that could cause the problems only when hot, is vapor lock in the fuel system. Your Fuel Pressure Solenoid raises fuel pressure to combat it-you might have it looked at. It's not a topic I know much about, so I will leave it to someone else to verify. It's worth mentioning though.

 

[jenjen]

gese....that's exactly what is sounds like..."The ISC stands for the "Idle Speed Control" and it does exactly that, helps to control the idle speed by regulating how much air is allowed to pass into the intake (when bypassing the throttle plate).
I will mention this to my mechanic, because thats one thing I definately not...Im starting to think I should take courses...
Can you buy and ISC and have it changed for a new one? Or is this a dumb question...sorry im a chick! I know cars but not in detailed depth..

just thinking back, I dont think the ISC motor was changed at all. When they did the radiator they changed the coolant temp gadge, not the ISC...

does the throttle pedal get stuck/jammed closed? you go to step on it and it doesn't move until you step on it harder.

to answer this question...a find it a little hard to press sometimes. Like I have to make sure I do it hard for it to accelorate

 

[tragdor]

Hey! I didn't want to make you feel stupid! Trust me, I don't know everything about cars and have had to learn the hard way just like you. No question is stupid at all...You can absolutely buy a new one and replace it. It's actually very easy. I'm sure you could do it yourself. Now, the new ones from the dealer are very pricey. I chose to buy a rebuilt one from a guy on Ebay that is known for rebuilding top notch throttle bodies (the part that lets air in the motor). It was $50 for it. Let's wait on that and see if any others can help identify the problem for sure.

 

[1995gsx20g]

Another issue that could cause the problems only when hot, is vapor lock in the fuel system. Your Fuel Pressure Solenoid raises fuel pressure to combat it-you might have it looked at. It's not a topic I know much about, so I will leave it to someone else to verify. It's worth mentioning though.

a little bit about vapor lock..

vapor lock is a condition where the fuel in the rail turns from a liquid state to a gas state and blocks liquid from flowing threw the rail.

it is more common when higher than normal ambient temps are present. for example lets say it "should" be at 0 C and it is unusually warm like a heat wave and it is 25 C then vapor lock could be likely but only apon the car running then shutting it off for a few mins to run into a store then going to start an already warmed up car.

when the average temp for a season is 0 C then the fuel company will mix the fuel to have a higher volatility so vehicles don't have a hard time starting in the cold. so when the average temp for a season is 25 C the fuel company will mix the fuel to have a lower volatility because the higher ambient temps help vaporization and excess volatility with a higher temp is what promotes vapor lock.

it was worth mentioning vapor lock,
this is why i asked when it stalls does it start up right away?

then jen said it starts right back up with no issues so that eliminates vapor lock as a cause.

to answer this question...a find it a little hard to press sometimes. Like I have to make sure I do it hard for it to accelorate

do you find that the throttle pedal is inconsistant with the amount of pressure you have to press on it to accelerate? like sometimes it is harder to press than other times? especially after it sits overnight and it is the first time you go to press it down since the day before..

 

[jenjen]

cool, well that sells out the vapour issue. Now Im hoping it's the ISC motor which as mentioned by my friend in Texas,"helps to control the idle speed by regulating how much air is allowed to pass into the intake (when bypassing the throttle plate)." because it feels so much like something is being blocked or stopping a flow of some sort

As per my friend in NY he asked me

"does the throttle pedal get stuck/jammed closed? you go to step on it and it doesn't move until you step on it harder.

to answer this question...a find it a little hard to press sometimes. Like I have to make sure I do it hard for it to accelorate. I find since I bought the car it felt like I had to press a tad bit harder on the pedal

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenjen
to answer this question...a find it a little hard to press sometimes. Like I have to make sure I do it hard for it to accelorate

do you find that the throttle pedal is inconsistant with the amount of pressure you have to press on it to accelerate? like sometimes it is harder to press than other times? especially after it sits overnight and it is the first time you go to press it down since the day before..

YES DEFINATELY i fell this from time to time.. Does this mean anything

 

[1995gsx20g]

I find since I bought the car it felt like I had to press a tad bit harder on the pedal

i have a pretty good feeling that your throttle body shaft seals are worn and/or the throttle body is still dirty and needs to be removed and cleaned thoroughly. while the throttle body is removed for cleaning this would be a great time to remove the isc and clean the hole where that sits in also. it would also be a good time to test the isc, i would print this page out and bring it to your mechanic

dont worry this is the same exact isc that it on all 90-94 dsm's and 95-99 turbo dsm's
Stealth 316 - ISC Servo Motro

this is the link to replace the throttle body shaft seals
TB Shaft Seals VFAQ

YES DEFINATELY i fell this from time to time.. Does this mean anything

im 99% sure your throttle body shaft seals are bad and/or your throttle body is still very dirty. but more likely the shaft seals are bad..

The turbo shaft seals will fit your non-turbo throttle body, you can find the shaft seals on Mach V Motorsports - High Performance Car Parts

 

[jenjen]

Gese, I feel do dumb next to you guys, not that your making me feel dumb at all, its just I'm doing my best to understand what you're both telling me & I think I'm understanding which is great! Not I just have to let me mechanic know that it may be the ISC motor, but man you would think he would be able to tell me this himself...

I hope if he does change the ISC it will help, because someone told me the MAF which I dont even know what the MAF sensor is. I'm thinking it has to be a sensor somewhere, its just to find out which one

 

[1995gsx20g]

it can't hurt to print out this hole thread in case you don't want to forget any information or atleast go on his computer and bring up this thread so your mechanic can look threw it.

The maf sensor does not fit the description of your issues as well as the parts we discussed earlier but might not be a bad direction to look in after you go threw this first.

 

[jenjen]

cool, I'm going to mention the Shaft seals on the throttle body to my mechanic also. I know when he cleaned the throttle plate the first time, he didn't remove it, so Im going to have him take it out completely this time & clean good. Also checking the ISC motor and clean that as well. Then I'll have to replace that piece eventually. Man I must say you guys are the bomb! You're helping alot & thank you so much for all your patience.