clutch going

[DaisyTuner]

ok guys so i need new clutch, possibly new tranny. i have 6 bolts in a 95 talon. the guy i bought it from was worthless and didnt know left from right so he has no clue what i need replacing or not. this car is project car. please do not bash for for lack of dsm knowledge, for i am a newb to the dsm scene.

my question
if i get a new clutch, since i have 6 bolt engine, does that also mean i have an older gen tranny. basically what year clutch/tranny will i need to replace this? and i have a 16g full setup, so what stage clutch, and what type of tranny should i be looking at?

btw fwd

thanks for the wisdom!
josh

 

[Marceldsm]

xtd stage 4 best clutch for the buck 150$ fwd 91 tranny to 94

i have no idea if you have to do a conversion do
clables and all that

 

[twicks69]

Josh, ok, you have a Front-Wheel-Drive 95 Eagle Talon TSi. Please correct me if I am wrong.

First off, the clutch issue.... Since you are requiring a new pressure plate and clutch disk, these parts are the same for all FWD and AWD 1990-1999 DSM's (6-bolt or 7-bolt 4G63T). The flywheel would be the only part that is different throughout the DSM generations for two different factors -- AWD vs. FWD, and 6-Bolt vs. 7-bolt crank flange.

There are numerous options for clutches that can capacitate the 300-500 Torque range while staying extremely streetable and friendly to drive daily.

The key misconception among clutch purchasers is that they think that the higher the clamping force of the pressure plate, the better it will be for them. This is actually a two-part answer, as they will increase torque capacity by having a higher clamping force pressure plate, but they will also put substantially more force on the crank's thrust bearing causing the potential for severe main bearing wear or premature failure. With that said, the torque capacity of a clutch depends on several factors, including the clutch material friction coefficient and heat capacity, the surface area of the friction materials, the thermal dissipation of the material itself, and the pressure plate clamping force.

Think of the clutch friction material choices as being different kinds of brake pads. Each one has a different characteristic about it, including their friction coefficient, heat capacity, initial bite, and friction capacity over time and temperature. With these ideas put out there, we can now talk about how aggressive a clutch material may be, their heat capacities, and their wear characteristics.

There are numerous friction materials to choose from, including the following (not all of them):

*Organic
*Kevlar
*Dual Friction (Organic and Feramic)
*Dual Friction (Ceramic and Feramic)
*Dual Friction (Ceramic and Kevlar)
*Dual Friction (Organic and Carbon Kevlar Segmented) - Centerforce Dual Friction
*Feramic
*Sintered Iron

These friction materials are normally offered in the form of a full-face clutch disk, a segmented clutch disk, or a puck-style clutch disk. There are also options for a sprung hub that is made for the street, or a solid hub which sacrifice streetability for positive engagement.

Pressue plate clamping forces vary substantially across the board based on manufacturers, and their rated torque capacities. I prefer to use a higher friction coefficient material than use a higher clamping force pressure plate because it will result in less thrust load being put on the crank main bearings.


In your circumstance, based upon your power levels and goals, I would want to stay with a ~2100# pressure plate and a streetable clutch material. The materials I would choose from would be an organic disk, a kevlar disk, or a organic/kevlar dual friction disk. I don't think that you really need a super high friction coefficient material, or a super-aggressive material such as a feramic or sintered iron material. Same thing goes for a puck-style clutch disk or a solid hub clutch disk. You are looking for streetability, smooth engagement and long life characteristics while handling the torque requirements.

This would push me towards using one of the following:

*South Bend Clutch SS-Series Pressure plate with a TZ-Series Kevlar segmented/full-face sprung clutch disk. This pressure plate has a clamping force around 2050-2100#, resulting in nice soft pedal pressure, while handling between 500-550TQ without problems, while lasting a long, long time. Its kevlar friction material can handle alot of heat, slippage, and launches with minimal wear, and cannot glaze like an organic friction material. It is also very easy to drive on the street, and has a bit more bite during engagement than the organic disk, but it can handle substantially more abuse than an organic disk setup.

*Fidanza 2.1 clutch assembly. Full-face carbon/kevlar friction material with a sprung hub and a ~2100# pressure plate. It is made by Fidanza for minimal bolt-on's and is their entry-level clutch assembly.

*ACT 2100 with organic sprung street disk. This is an old proven combination that works fine, but will have substantially shorter lifespan when compared to the other two options recommended due to its friction material composition and wear characteristics, and temperature range.


The kevlar friction materials will have substantially better operating temperature ranges, wear characteristics, and abuse capacity when compared to the organic friction materials. These two materials are also very forgiving to flywheel and pressure plate friction surfaces and won't shred them like a feramic or sintered iron friction material.


As for what specific brand I prefer in this scenario, I stand behind the South Bend Clutch products. They are proven, and are high quality for a very fair price.

Be sure to have your flywheel friction surface properly machined before installing a new clutch. If you intend on doing this, be sure that your machinist has access to new metric dowels; I have listed the part number and dimensions below. The three alignment dowels require removal for the flywheel to be properly surfaced and the step height properly machined flat and to the proper specifications of 0.608" to 0.610" step height. If it is outside of this step height, you will have clutch engagement issues. After the step height and resurfacing has been completed, the machinist should be installing NEW alignment dowels because they usually get mangled up during the removal process; which requires a metric M8 collet and a slide hammer. These dowels are pressed into the flywheel and are regularly a pain in the ass to get out.

If you are intending on purchasing a new OEM or aftermarket flywheel (Fidanza, ACT, etc.), they come already at the proper step height. As well, there are benefits to the Fidanza aluminum flywheel, as the flywheel friction surface is replacable for a cost around $60, so when you need to replace the clutch in the future, you don't need to pay for the resurface, or downtime. You only need to pre-order a friction surface and hardware kit, and install the new friction surface and hardware, then install the clutch and you are ready to go! The ACT streetlite flywheel is a very nice piece also, and is make of chromoly steel. It is lightweight, but can handle high temperature levels better than the Fidanza flywheel without potential warping issues. It is also the ideal flywheel to use when you are running an aftermarket flywheel with a kevlar clutch setup, as it will handle more heat without issues. The ACT flywheel can be resurfaced a couple times before it must be replaced with a new one.


Also, here is a list of Mitsubishi parts that are recommended for replacement during a clutch install:

*Flywheel Alignment Dowels (M8 x 18mm) = MF472404 x 3
*Clutch fork pivot ball = MD719602
*Clutch fork = MD770506
*Throwout Bearing = MD749998
*Throwout Bearing Spring Clip = MD706185
*Clutch Slave Cylinder (2G FWD) = MD749823
*Clutch Slave Cylinder (2G AWD) = MD749823
*Clutch Master Cylinder Assembly (2G FWD) = MB910562
*Clutch Master Cylinder Assembly (2G AWD) = MB910562
*Clutch Master Cylinder Rebuild Kit (2G AWD) = MB870511
*Clutch Master Cylinder Rebuild Kit (2G FWD) = MB870511
*Flywheel Bolts (2G FWD and AWD) = MD302074 x 7 (M12 x 21.2mm)
*Flywheel Bolts (1G FWD and AWD) = MD040557 x 6 (M12 x 22.5mm)





As for transmission identifictation, there is a very easy way to tell the year and make of the transmission in your car. There are two serial number stampings on your transmission bellhousing along the top and front of the transmission along the engine block side, both above the slave cylinder, and can be deciphered to tell you what year and model transmission you have in your car.

For the FWD 2G transmission, the first code should look like: F5M33-2-SPZT -- the first five letters/digits refer to the transmission as a 1991-1999 Front-Wheel-Drive 5-speed manual transmission. The F = FWD, 5 = 5-speed, M = Manual, 33 = Model type of the transmission. The last four letters refer to the transmission's model information, including gear ratio, bellhousing type, final drive, and differential options, etc.


For the AWD DSM transmissions, the first code should look like: W5M332-NPXV or KW5M332-NPXV -- the first five letters/digits refer to the transmission as a 1991-1999 All-Wheel-Drive 5-speed Manual transmission. W = AWD, 5 = 5-speed, M = Manual, 33 = Model type of the transmission. The last four letters refer to the transmission's model information, including gear ratio, final drive, differential options, etc.

Here is a reference of the main DSM AWD transmission part numbers out there:
1G 1990-1994 - KW5M332NPXV (06/1990-02/1994)
2G 95-96 - KW5M332NPZT (03/1994-06/1996)
2G 97-99 - KW5M332MUZT (07/1996-1999)


The second code is a VIN number specifically for the transmission manufacturing date/location, etc. It is a 17-digit VIN code. The 10th digit is the one we are looking for -- it will tell you the year of the transmission.
Vin ID: Year Built:
L -- 1990
M -- 1991
N -- 1992
P -- 1993
R -- 1994
S -- 1995
T -- 1996
V -- 1997
W -- 1998
X -- 1999


If the year of the transmission corresponds to the year of the vehicle, hopefully it is the original one -- then you can look at the VIN plate on the door frame to find the year and month that the vehicle was built, as the transmission build date will correspond to this build date.





If you have any other questions, please feel to PM me, and I will point you in the right direction.

 

[gsx4g64]

great info. I need this.

 

[WizardTSi]

wow lots of great info. Thanks!

 

[HooKnBooK]

I would look into a ACT 2100

 

[Dylan0123]

DaisyTuner, I have similar goals and after doing some research I've decided to go with this:

http://www.tmzperformance.com/Mitsubishi SBC Clutch Parts.html

Like twicks said, the South Bend Clutch SS-Series pressure plate with TZ-Series kevlar sprung clutch disk looks like a good choice.

 

[98awdtsi]

Perfect info here, ive got a 98 2g awd 5speed tranny, but my question is.. what does the "K" stand for that on the vin?

 

[twicks69]

Nothing. If it says W5M33-2-xxxx or KW5M33-2-xxxx, the prefix does not mean anything different internally.