Holset Turbos, for Newbs.

[Morphius]

The point of this thread is for members that are restricted to this forum to post questions regarding Holset turbos. This will help concentrate info in the newbie section and make it more readily accessible for others down the road. (fewer threads to dig through for info.)

Once you've hit your required minimum to post in other forums, we'd recommend moving to the primary Holset threads for further discussion.

 

[Morphius]

For more discussion history:
Link to Part 1:
Holset Turbos - DSM Forums

Link to Part 2:
Holset Turbos, PART 2 - DSM Forums

Link to Part 3:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/274459-holset-turbos-part-3-a.html

Link to Part 4:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/303969-holset-turbos-part-4-a.html

Link to Part 5:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/314629-holset-turbos-part-5-a.html

Link to Part 6:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html

For in vehicle results:
Link to Results Only:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...-results-only-complete-installed-systems.html

Link to HX-52 setup;
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/307988-holset-volvo-hx-52-dyno-sheets.html

For more specific component discussion:
Link to Holset Part #'s:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/312186-holset-part-thread-only.html

Link to Holset oil feed discussion:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/244467-holset-hx-35-oiling.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...turbo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small.html

Link to Fake Holset Info:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/306635-counterfeit-holset-turbos.html

Summary provided by wiseman, Dsm-onster:
HX35:

The 8blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on 1995-1998 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 52 lb/min according to the compressor map. The bolton BEP housing (0.55 a/r) is enough to push the limit of the compressor. There's several 500whp 8blade hx35 cars out there with the bolt on housing. It reaches 20+psi by 3500rpms in 3rd with 272 cams. Smaller cams would equal a faster spool speed in most cases.

The 7blade hx35 has a 56mm compressor inducer. This is found on the 1999-2002 cummins manual pickups. The compressor flows 60lb/min according to the compressor map and logged results from a member here. The bolton BEP housing with the hx35 turbine wheel do not SEAM to have enough flow to really reach the potential of 60lb/min. But many have logged over 50lb/min so far and seen 500whp. The stock hx35 12cm^2 twinscroll turbine housing is a t3 flange housing. This mated to a NON-divided runner manifold has produced a 132mph trap speed with a full weight 1g AWD. This is about 600whp. So the flow is there with the stock housing if you use a non-divided manifold. The spool speed of the 7blade hx35 is similar to the 8blade hx35 with 20+ psi by 3500rpms in the bolton housing and by 4000rpms with the stock housing with a non-divided manifold.

HY35:

The hy35 has a smaller turbine wheel than the hx35. And, it has a turbine housing connection that does not allow for a bolton housing to be used. It does not have a divided housing so any t3 manifold can be used effectively with this turbo. It has the same compressor as the 7blade hx35. We don't know if te hy35 turbine wheel and housing is enough to reache the 60lb/min potential of the 56mm 7blade compressor. Some one try it out already!!! It should at least be a faster spooling viable option to the full t3/t4 50-trim.

H1C/WH1C:

In 1994, there was the Wh1c which has pretty much the identical compressor as the hx35 but with a Vband compressor cover. The turbine wheel is the same. It will bolt into the BEP bolton hx35 turbine housing. It has 4 bolts at the housing instead of 6. So you will need to buy 2 more bolts and use 6 washers cut to make a flat side. Honestly, I just used bolts that were cut a little short and the bolt head was wide enough to pull the chra to the turbine housing. No sealing issues. Since the Wh1c is for all practical purposes an 8blade hx35 the spool and flow is the same too.

I have the big h1c. It comes on the INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. It has the webbing for MWE but no groove cut like the hx35/wh1c has. This turbo I term the big h1c because it has a 54mm compressor inducer and same exducer than the 8blade hx35/Wh1c. The other h1c is the small h1c found on the NON-intercooled cummins pickups. This has a 50mm inducer but only 7blades and has no webbing for MWE. Less blades helps flow, but so does a larger inducer diameter. The most whp ever recorded on a gas 4cylinder with the small h1c was done on a KA24 nissan: 411whp. Since the big h1c has a 4mm larger inducer and the same turbine wheel as the hx35, it is safe to say that it flows enough for between 411whp and 500whp. The diesel sources state that it flows SLIGHTLY less than the early hx35. So 4lb/min less than the 8blade hx35 puts the flow of the big h1c at 48-49lb/min right where a 50-trim or 20g is. The small bep housing is all that's needed to get the most from the compressor and the spool speed is 20+psi by 3500rpms.

HX35-40 hybrid:

Keeping the long tradition of the marriage of sportcompact and hybrid turbos, there is the hx35 turbine and the hx40 compressor. It is strongly recommended to use the large bep turbine housing or the stock hx35 turbine housing with an non-divided t3 manifold for this turbo. The small bep housing around a t31 size hx35 turbine wheel is probably not enough to merit any of the hx40 compressor wheel upgrades. 20+ psi by 4000rpms can be seen in the hx35/40 with the hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided t3 manifold. With the large bep housing, spool times are to be determined. But likely similar.

HX40:

The 8blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and flows about the same as a 60-1 (around 60lb/min) with ALOT better high boost efficiency and spool speed. It is the most common hx40 out there. The small bep housing with the hx40 turbine wheel is plenty to reach the full potential of the 60lb/min 8blade hx40 compressor. 20+ psi by 4100rpms with 272s.

The 7 and 6 blade hx40 is called the super40 and has the 60mm compressor inducer. This compressor flows around 69lb/min. You can get this wheel in billet style (think HTA). The non-billet wheel spools as fast as the 8blade hx40 in the bolton bep housing and has done 653whp at 40psi per the holset results only thread. Billet should spool even faster. The t3 .70 a/r BEP housing slows spool about 400rpms. But reports show a significant gain in flow per psi. So expect more power at lower boost with that turbine housing.

H1E/WH1E:

The Wh1e is like it's little brother the Wh1c. It mirrors the hx40 8blade in every way except that it has a v-band compressor cover and a 4bolt chra-turbinehousing pattern. It will consequently bolt into the hx40 bep bolton turbine housing and this is plenty of flow to max out its 60lb/min compressor.

The h1e is like it's little brother the h1c. There are different size compressors. . . BUT there are also different size turbine wheels too. Check measurements before buying this turbo if you plan on running a BEP turbine housing. There are lower flowing compressors than the 58mm 8blade that are out there. So this turbo may not flow any more than an hx35 if get the wrong one. You need at least a 58mm compressor inducer for this to be a worthwhile turbo vs the proven hx35 or 8blade hx40.

HX52:

This is a big sucker. It is commonly found on the Volvo Semis and usually has a billet compressor wheel. It flows 88lb/min. There is no bolt on housing for it. If you want a bolton housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. In fact if you want a t3 flange turbine housing for this turbo, then you don't want this turbo. You DO want this turbo if you're looking at a gt4294r or gt4202r. The turbine inlet is slightly different than a t4 bolt pattern. You can still get the t4 manifold to work just fine by enlarging the bolt holes.

Misc.:

• Holset's don't spool slow. They spool faster than their garrett or mitsubishi counterparts. Diesel exhaust is cold and slow moving.

• The holset turbine wheel is a work of art. It has been shown to flow very well in a very small turbine housing. For example the hx40 turbine wheel in the small .55 ar bep bolton housing flows as much as a garrett gt35r turbine wheel in a larger .63 ar garrett t3 turbine housing. The hx40 with this configuration spools about 500rpms faster! You can upgrade to the .70 a/r BEP t3 turbine housing and have the same or slightly faster spool speed as the above gt35r with ALOT more flow per psi and consequently more horsepower per psi. This makes for VERY good pumpgas numbers.

• Holset patented map width enhancement. They do not have extended tip technology, but there compressors show more efficiency than their garrett or mitsubishi counterpart.

• They have superback technology witch leads to VERY, VERY durable compressors. The are designed to be overworked and underpaid.

• There are discrepancies all over the web concerning the compressor maps. Take what you hear/read with a grain of salt and a shot of tequila, and the worm.

• The holset is fine with stock 4g63 oil pressure from the oil filter housing. If you have no b shafts, you'll need a restrictor. The drain line is a garret bolt pattern. The feed line is different for different turbos.

 

[Morphius]

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[Morphius]

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[Morphius]

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[A80Avant]

Hello everyone,

in about 2 weeks time i will be installing a Holset SuperHX40 with the T3 0.70AR on an audi 2.2 5cyl engine.
Im hoping to be able to achieve full boost at no later than 4200rpm and my goal is to reach 500hp crank with relative humane boost level.(hoping about 26psi)

Many thanks to Jus for his quick reply reguarding oil suply.Apparently the audi engine produces about 26psi oil pressure at lowest on warm engine idle, and around 72psi on full load or cold engine warm up.So im hoping that these limits are ideal for holsets, although it did have an additional water supply for the KKK turbo it originally had.So water will be blocked away.

Small info on the engine:
2.2 inline 5cyl
scat rods
mahle pistons (9:1 comp ratio)
ARP bolts all around
Stock-serviced cyl head, no porting
Stock camshafts (give a nice middle range from 3500-6500rpm good results)
Sport Quattro exhaust manifold (from 1985 street model)
Reverse small intake manifold
Southbend clutch kit with single mass lightened flywheel

(currently running about 425hp crank and 620Nm torque(457.3ftlbs) on a GT3071R turbo,dual mass flywheel,spec clutch kit, long run inlet manifold)


Here are a couple of questions:

1) now that this turbo is oil cooled only, is a calm,casual driving before switching off the engine for (about 5 min) enough to cool the turbo down? This car is difficult to fit a turbotimer on, as most of the times the gear should be left in.Handbrake is very very poor no matter what you do....

2) What is the highest acceptable exhaust gas temperature on the bullseye hotside (T3) that would enable long term good operation? Audis tend to produce relatively high EGTs. Current spec with the garrett 3071R, the highest acceptable EGT is 950C on the turbo hotside.The sensor will be placed on the hotside once again.

3) What is the mean mph you can get with a holset unit before requiring service if you are working the turbo within it's limits?


thanks for now!
here are some photos!

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all power measurements are done by me and the racelogic perfomance box through a nice excel file i have made with a couple of friends.
ECU management is done by VEMS aftermarket ECUs and mapping is done by myself.

Hope i can get to my goals with this holset baby!

Vasilis

 

[JusMX141]

Two words come to mind....

FCUKIN' SICK!

1) now that this turbo is oil cooled only, is a calm,casual driving before switching off the engine for (about 5 min) enough to cool the turbo down? This car is difficult to fit a turbotimer on, as most of the times the gear should be left in.Handbrake is very very poor no matter what you do....

You shouldn't even need that much time if it's casually-driven. In fact, unless your driveway literally turns right off a highway (unfortunately, mine does), there's not really much need to let it cool at all. Often the short drive through a residential neighborhood to get to your driveway is more than adequate cooling for an oil-only turbo.

2) What is the highest acceptable exhaust gas temperature on the bullseye hotside (T3) that would enable long term good operation? Audis tend to produce relatively high EGTs. Current spec with the garrett 3071R, the highest acceptable EGT is 950C on the turbo hotside.The sensor will be placed on the hotside once again.

I've always tuned by wideband but once you get it within an acceptable wideband setting the EGT's end up being around 1550*F / 850*C at the end of a hard pull with the EGT probe placed in the manifold about 4-6" from the head.

3) What is the mean mph you can get with a holset unit before requiring service if you are working the turbo within it's limits?

This greatly hinges on the car and the setup. Horsepower, tune, weight, gearing are all factors.

A HX40 on a DSM has trapped as little as 108 or as much as 139 and anything in between in the quarter mile.

 

[A80Avant]

that is great news abou the EGTs as 850C on that probe placement makes it round about ok for 950C on the hotside itself!
On the cruising speeds i get around 700-850 max on 6th gear and fairly lean mixture, but i put it down to my very small hotside on the garrett now (0.63AR as well), so it may have room for even leaner on the holset.

as for the service info, i was referring to the amount of mph that can run without needing service on a street car with occasional pulls, and not to the limit everytime. So for example, will it last 60K miles before needing to be pulled off for service? or will it need it sooner?

 

[vigge]

I have personally been playing around with Holsets in my Saabs for few years, mainly with European variant of the HX40super. The EU version utilizes the 10blade turbine wheel
http://www.turbotekniikka.fi/images/stories/superhx40/kuva3.jpg
while the Us. specs utilizes the turbine wheel from the normal HX40, with 12 blades.
http://www.turbotekniikka.fi/images/stories/superhx40/kuva4.jpg
according to the Finnish Holset distributor the 10-blade flows 10-15% less, but spools up lower and is more "responsive.
Real life experience of the backs up the words.
More pics of the turbo you do find here
Image gallery

Up to last fall I had this turbo both in my daily driver (saab 9-3 2.3l viggen)
Saab 9-3 Viggen (2000) - GARAGET - www.garaget.org
and in my shared "race" car (Saab 9-3 2.0)
Saab 9-3 2.0T (1999) - GARAGET - www.garaget.org
During this winter I will de-tune the viggen completely and the race car will be taken to the "next" level.

Due to this change in scope the tune in the viggen was newer maxed out with the holset, but some results I have. Previous to the HX40super set-up the I ran a gt3071 ar. 0.86 in the car and spool curve was likewise to the holset with #16 T3 housing
http://www.stcf.net/viggen/h40super16_30711.gif
The HX40 set-up was dynoed with 1.5bar (~22Psi) just weeks after the install and gave 493whp. Best trap speed 290km/h on a standing mile. With GT3071 best trap 280km/h.

The "race" car on the other hand was taken to its limit last year and here is a "joke" write up of that car
http://www.stcf.net/Tribute_2x4.pdf
in shortness we used a bone stock Saab 2.0l engine besides cams, valve springs and minor head porting. Car was dynoed to 601whp
http://www.stcf.net/ProjectX/run3.jpg
YouTube - Saab 666
and trapped 191.4mph on standing mile
YouTube - Saab 9-3 sets new standing mile record for Saab 308km/h 191.4mph
All runs with pump fuel + w/m injection. W/M injection used for additional cooling in longs runs, but is possible and has been run without it on same tune.

For this year the HW in this car will be totally redone and engine built with forged internal, head with solid lifters and more aggressive cams. Turbo will be a HX55 frame, with 72mm compressor and 80mm turbine, housing #22.
Some diverse pics of parts
diverse parts
Bottom engine build
The "big" turbo next to the block in those pics is a HX60 with 82mm billet compressor wheel. Little big for this year but maybe for net season.

In both of my cars i have run multi-channel innovate data loggers and have several thousand log files how the set-up have performed parameter wise.

Relating to this topic, the best results with EU spec HX40super on quarter mile I know of is 10.0x/230km/h. Car was Audi S2.

 

[A80Avant]

what spec is the engine you have on the saab?

 

[dsm-onster]

Sorry to stray off topic a little. But it's nice to see you post in this thread Vigge.

 

[vigge]

what spec is the engine you have on the saab?

Can be found from in the links posted in my previous posts.
The "race" cars (saab 9-3 2.0l) last yeas specs
http://www.stcf.net/Tribute_2x4.pdf

Daily drivers (saab 9-3 viggen 2.3l)
Saab 9-3 Viggen (2000) - GARAGET - www.garaget.org
specs in Swedish language, but should open up, but if not just shoot me a PM

 

[A80Avant]

so you had the turbo spooling up at 3780rpm on the 2.3l engine? and you had the same reaction from the HX40??? that is brilliant!!!!

 

[andy4g63]

Good luck, Vassilis^^^.

 

[A80Avant]

thanks andy... i will be taking loads of photos to capture the moments, and hopefully get everything right!

 

[richard33]

I just bought a hx35 with the stock t3 divided back housing. Do people use those or are all you guys switching over to a normal t3? Where do you get the normal t3 back housing from? Also, Do any of you guys keep them internally gated? The wastegate really isnt that big of a deal to me since I will be running high boost anyways.

 

[Morphius]

as for the service info, i was referring to the amount of mph that can run without needing service on a street car with occasional pulls, and not to the limit everytime. So for example, will it last 60K miles before needing to be pulled off for service? or will it need it sooner?

If setup with proper hardware (oil pressure and drain line) they should last a very long time. I see no reason why it shouldn't last at least 100K miles.

I have a 2003 Dodge Ram with a HE341 that has 226,000 miles on it. It's been towing heavy all it's life (greater than 10,000 lbs). It sees 25-35psi all the time.


I'd say if you drive under very light load for an excess of 2 minutes before you stop and shut the car down you will be fine. Or just let it sit and idle for a few minutes.

 

[A80Avant]

I just bought a hx35 with the stock t3 divided back housing. Do people use those or are all you guys switching over to a normal t3? Where do you get the normal t3 back housing from? Also, Do any of you guys keep them internally gated? The wastegate really isnt that big of a deal to me since I will be running high boost anyways.

Hi Richard,

i switched to the T3 because my exhaust manifold fits easier this way,and because of a 5cyl engine, i didnt want to make a divided exhaust manifold all over again.

I bought the hotside from bullseye turbos.

Im also going to do some cryogenic treatment on the hotside, exhaust manifold, pressure plate and flywheel for increased strength and heat dissipation.

 

[JD98GSX]

Ok fellas,

I recently acquired a HX35W with the 8 blade. I contacted a place in Indianapolis that said they have 7 blade turbines that will slide right in, and i will need to get it balanced. I am now looking for a link that I can use to get the Hotside housing, and oil drain/feed lines. Also I was thinking about doing a full head rebuild with titanium everything and 272 cams. I assume this is a good idea expecially for running loads of boost on a daily bases, Any body make a "kit" that would make things easy for me to do this, or a one stop shop that isnt going to kill the bank... Thanks

sorry for

 

[ziggo0]

Ok fellas,

I recently acquired a HX35W with the 8 blade. I contacted a place in Indianapolis that said they have 7 blade turbines that will slide right in, and i will need to get it balanced. I am now looking for a link that I can use to get the Hotside housing, and oil drain/feed lines. Also I was thinking about doing a full head rebuild with titanium everything and 272 cams. I assume this is a good idea expecially for running loads of boost on a daily bases, Any body make a "kit" that would make things easy for me to do this, or a one stop shop that isnt going to kill the bank... Thanks

sorry for

How much did you pay for the HX35? Locally? If so, PM me - I live about a hour away and I'm looking to buy one as well.

 

[spartan69x]

I'm going to keep an eye out here, I plan on a hx-35 myself. Good stuff, keep it coming guys.

 

[JusMX141]

I recently acquired a HX35W with the 8 blade. I contacted a place in Indianapolis that said they have 7 blade turbines that will slide right in, and i will need to get it balanced.

A 7-blade compressor will not "drop right in" place of an 8-blade compressor.

The 8-blade has a larger exducer than the 7-blade, meaning there will be a gap between the compressor and the groove in the backplate if you install the 7-blade wheel in place of an 8-blade.

Being that the 8-blade's exducer is larger, the 7-blade wheel will not fit the contour of the 8-blade's compressor cover (too small). Obviously you can't add metal to the cover, so without a 7-blade compressor cover you're S.O.L.

I am now looking for a link that I can use to get the Hotside housing, and oil drain/feed lines.

Try Slowboy, G-Pop Shop, or Bullseye direct for the turbine housing. Extreme PSI or Slowboy has oil line accessories for Holsets.

Any body make a "kit" that would make things easy for me to do this, or a one stop shop that isnt going to kill the bank...

No "kits" available for Holsets, which is why some don't bother with them. Those who overlook the annoyance of piecing their setup together and choose to use a Holset on their build never seem to complain once it's on the car.

 

[JD98GSX]

I understand that there arn't any holset "kits" I was refering to a head rebuild when I asked about a kit. And Maybe thats what the guy was talking about when He said that I will have to buy a rebuild kit and stuff for it to "slide right in"...


As far as how I found my HX35W. I went to the performance shop that a friend of mine owns and told him to track down a HX35 and he started laughing, and told me he has one in is garage at home.And I got it for the cost of the rebuild kit...It came off of his old plow truck. But I think he said he can get more. I will check

 

[justin90gsx]

quick question, i got a hx35 7 blade w/ a mitsu style bep housing and a fp mani, so my question is will my turbo clear the block?

 

[talonDSMerr]

The turbo will definitely clear the block. I have basically the same setup and I have plenty of room to spare.