Newbie ForumBeginner/newbie/general DSM questions. first mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum. New Members must limit their tech posts to this forum and sub-forums.
Hey Guys I plan to upgrade cams in the near future so i was wondering what is the best of these 2 cams? the brian crower's 272 or the kelford's 272? i know i have to degree them but i am putting fidanza cam gears so it won't be a problem but at the same time im not into degreeing that much so. im more convinced on getting the kelfords but i haven't seen much cars with them on so that's why im asking you guys... if you could provide me threads of the results of kelford cams would be deeply appreciated. also is better to use the ralliart mlhg than the cometic right?
Thanks In Advance!
Brian
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My god, there isn't even a close comparison between the two. BC sucks ass. Plain and simple. Idle like crap and make crappy power overall. Get what you pay for, for sure.
I will guarantee you 150% that you will make more peak power/torque and more power/torque at every point in the RPM range with the Kelfords.
I will show this picture until I am blue in the face. This is what happened to the last set of BC products that I came across personally. I know they aren't cams, but still...
My god, there isn't even a close comparison between the two. BC sucks ass. Plain and simple. Idle like crap and make crappy power overall. Get what you pay for, for sure.
They say HKS 272/272 all the way. You can use stock head with these cams and still get decent results, very aggresive. Just a little slower in off boost, and slower spool than stock, but overall more power.
They say HKS 272/272 all the way. You can use stock head with these cams and still get decent results, very aggresive. Just a little slower in off boost, and slower spool than stock, but overall more power.
They only tested like 4 different manufacturers in that test.
Don't get BC, they are poorly designed. If you're look for peak power I would get Kelford or FP, but the HKS does very well for power under the curve. However, if you can't tune good then there is really no need for comparison.
As for head gasket, I'd just get the Mitsubishi MLS head gasket.
Excuse me, but why SPECIFICALLY is everyone saying BC cams are crap? Obviously Kelford 272s will net you bigger gains then BC 272s, because they have a higher lift/duration. They also cost more, but I'm not arguing that BC's are better than kelfords. I have BC 280s in my car, and they idle perfectly at 900rpms and they didn't hurt my spool time at all (coming from 272 regrinds). So tell me, why are BC cams crap?
So that the people who bought the more expensive cams can justify there purchase.
I run BC 280's on my 2.4 with bc valve springs. Degreed them when I installed them. I hit 35 psi at around 4400 with an FP green and holds it all the way to 8500. I have no complaints with them. They may not be the best choice but not a bad choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOOOO
Excuse me, but why SPECIFICALLY is everyone saying BC cams are crap? Obviously Kelford 272s will net you bigger gains then BC 272s, because they have a higher lift/duration. They also cost more, but I'm not arguing that BC's are better than kelfords. I have BC 280s in my car, and they idle perfectly at 900rpms and they didn't hurt my spool time at all (coming from 272 regrinds). So tell me, why are BC cams crap?
It's because of quality. Yes I know there are tons of people out there that run BC just fine, but they have been known to break. Ask SonySlave, he will tell you all about it. I also realize everything can break no matter who produces it. It's just that you hear about BC failing more often than others so you can assume it's a lower quality part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackrosenova40
So that the people who bought the more expensive cams can justify there purchase.
Not trying to product bash, but BC are very near the bottom of the totem poll as far as power gains are concerned. Kelford is one of the top 2. I don't think anyone needs to justify buying a set of kelfords. Results don't lie.
Some of the reasons for people saying BC's are crap are semi justifiable, but another reason failures can be seen more frequent with these cams is because they are out on peoples cars in bigger numbers. I think it'd be a safe bet to say there are probably 10 sets of BC's out there for every 1 set of Kelfords. I'm not trying to say BC's are better either though. If I were going to get cams Kelfords, or FP's would be my first choice, then COMP and HKS.
Some of the reasons for people saying BC's are crap are semi justifiable, but another reason failures can be seen more frequent with these cams is because they are out on peoples cars in bigger numbers. I think it'd be a safe bet to say there are probably 10 sets of BC's out there for every 1 set of Kelfords. I'm not trying to say BC's are better either though. If I were going to get cams Kelfords, or FP's would be my first choice, then COMP and HKS.
Theres 10 sets of BC's to every 1 set of Kelfords because 95% of the people are cheap asses and wont do it right the 1st time Look at the price tag between the 2
I love my Kelford 272's. I'd recommend them to anybody.
I upgraded to them from the Comp 200's. I also switch turbo set-ups and a few other things at the same time, so, unfortunately, I don't have any back-to-back comparisons between the two. But I have taken my Kelfords up beyond 9K a few times and I definitely can't feel power falling off. They rock.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
I love my Kelford 272's. I'd recommend them to anybody.
I upgraded to them from the Comp 200's. I also switch turbo set-ups and a few other things at the same time, so, unfortunately, I don't have any back-to-back comparisons between the two. But I have taken my Kelfords up beyond 9K a few times and I definitely can't feel power falling off. They rock.
Yeah I'd love to see the comps vs kelfords compared on your setup after the compound sweetness. I have no doubt there are probably some good gains from switching though.
Just send your cams to delta and have them reground. It will run between 190-220 after shipping. They can make your cams 264 grinds 272 grinds and even larger.
these are reground cams 264/272 open down pipe. http://www.deltacam.com/
____________________________
James Chanley 1992 AWD Automatic
You guys that are sticking up for BC are F&$*^@g idiots!! KELFORDS ARE BEST, that is what the op asked and I have told him. Everyone and their mom has BC cams cause they were like $320 shipped a year ago. I have had 2 sets of BC cams personally, the 280" and 288's.....They both sucked! I prefered my crappy HKS Delta regrind 280's in everyway over the BC cams. Now I have a set of custom Comp Cams and I will never look back. The Comp Cams are some very nasty and power hungry cams that just want to rev and never fall off. My Hp was climing all the way to 8500rpm, It never fell off and started to drop. Anyways, OP, please don't waste your money on BC's cams, they aren't a product to ever compare to Kelfords. A quick side note, look at the powere the BC 280's make and look at the kelford 272's......Yeah, the 272's made more power EVERYWHERE!! Think about that!
That AMS test was testing Crower cams not Brian Crower (two different companies) Look up the AMS cam test they did on the EVO8 (no mivec, similar to DSM) and you'll see what everyone means abou BC cams.
My 1st choice was the kelfords but wanted to hear your opinions on the bc's so now that i know that all bc products are crap which springs & retainers shall i use? because i was planning to use the bc ones but now that i know that they break i need a new options! also mitsu mls is way better than the cometic right?
thanks in advance
Brian
I dont see nothing wrong with the BCs!! For the price, these 288s are insane on the top end, they just want to keep on reving!!! I love them, just got to make sure you degree them.. Thats the bad thing!
I dont see nothing wrong with the BCs!! For the price, these 288s are insane on the top end, they just want to keep on reving!!! I love them, just got to make sure you degree them.. Thats the bad thing!
Try some HKS cams i bet you see power gains through the top
I hope the BC cams are not to crapy and its just hear say, cause i just orderd some
They're don't it's just a bunch of nutswingers who have yet to make any intelligent argument as to why BC cams suck. For what you pay you get a great value for both power gains and quality. I'm not saying they're better than kelfords or hks because they're not, but those cams cost nearly twice as much. That doesn't mean BCs are crap though. and for the last time morons, 272 280 288 whatever ARE JUST NUMBERS TO ACT AS A GUIDELINE, AND HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL CAM PROFILE OR POWER GAINS. I mean seriously do you people believe everything you read on the internet
Simple answer to the OPs simple question...if you have the dough go for kelford 272s as they will net you more power than BC 272s
I'm still waiting for firsthand experience as to why BC cams are crap. This is an important thread as cams are one of the easiest ways to gain significant power for those of us with upgraded turbos, and BCs are a popular choice. If BC cams truly are crap, please tell us exactly why for the further advancement of the dsm community. Seriously, if they really are I WILL SWAP OUT MY CAMS for proof. Unlike many dsm owners I am not on a budget so I don't mind being the guinea pig.
Last edited by YOOOO; 11-07-2009 at 02:39 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
Look at the price tag between the 2
