I want to tune my new DSM

[Prymal]

I just bought a 1991 Talon TSI that has

a big 16g turbo
ported exhaust mainfold from DSMParts
ported 02 housing from DSMParts
3 inch Turbo back exhaust
3 inch Intercooler pipe
Aluminum Intake Manifold
450cc injectors
Walbro 255
B&M FPR with guage tuned to 40 PSI
MBC tuned to 15 PSI
92 Octane pump gas
Boost Gauge
AFR Guage

This is what i have gathered from doing some research on getting the car tuned well

I need the below items to get the car tuned and running between 250 and 300hp

Wideband O2 sensor and Gauge
2g MAF
550cc injectors
SAFC

Is this correct? Is their anything else I should look into getting. I want to take what the previous owner did and just finish the job for around $800. Is that possible? Also do i need to be using 92 octane gas? or can i get away with mid grade?

 

[4pistons]

First, get some kind of logger so you can see what's going on with your air/fuel ratio, timing, and knock.
Second, get the SAFC so you can actually adjust the fuel.
Third, get the 550's - That Big 16G wants more fuel that your 450's can give it.

You probably don't need a wideband, it doesn't hurt, but you don't NEED it. You don't need a 2G MAS either. You can do 250 - 300 HP easily with the stock MAS. You can do some mods on it to make it even better.

You'll want at LEAST 92 octane fuel at 15 psi. Get your logger, put in the cheap stuff, and see what your timing and knock do!!!

Follow the advice of those that have been there:
RRE 1st Generation Eclipse  Upgrade Path
Buschur Racing - Your source for Mitsubishi racing parts and accessories

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[Prymal]

alright the 1g maf was already hacked with the 2nd honeycomb taken out and the airbox modified.

Is there any wireing needed for the Data logger or does it just plug into the ODBII dataport.

What is a good Datalogger to get that is cheap?

 

[asrdave]

there is no obd2 port on 1g's but there is a diagnotsic port that a logger will plug into it consists of a pda, cable and software however i personally dont like pda loggers -.-

 

[Prymal]

What logger do you have or would you suggest?

 

[whiteflash]

-Wideband for sure
-Keydiver chip
-Injectors
-SAFC for fine tuning
-logger

Or get DSMLINK

 

[tkelly27]

For the 1g you can also use jackal, or tunerpro. Both are around the same price as an AFC. You can also make your own logger cable.

http://www.ceddy.us/pic/PDA_data_cable_instructions.pdf

I've run jackal and tunerpro with an ostrich and a home made logging cable. Works great.

 

[Prymal]

I dont have an EProm ECU so jackle is out of the question. Do i have to have an eprom ecu to use a SAFC

 

[mikelv]

I dont have an EProm ECU so jackle is out of the question. Do i have to have an eprom ecu to use a SAFC

You don't need an EPROM to use an AFC.

If you plan on upgrading the car to anything bigger in the future, don't waste money on an AFC and buy DSMLink. You'll never need another tuning platform again.

I ran 420 to the wheels with Link on a stock 7 bolt, and those were dynomite numbers. DSMLink has everything you need in an EMS for half the price of AEM.

You're on the right track, but make sure you read and research before you buy, otherwise you're going to be wasting your money. Mistakes happen, sometimes trail and error and finding out from other guys what works is best. Good luck.

 

[Prymal]

DSMlink is a pretty awesome solution but i cant see getting a new Eprom ECU for $150

Plus DSM link for $600

and 550cc injectors for $300

$1050 dollars

When i could find a used logger for $100 and a SAFC for $350 plus injectors for $300 making a total of $750

 

[tkelly27]

If the AFC is $350, an eprom ecu and the ostrich to run tunerpro and jackal are both $150, so you'd be better off with that.

Used AFC's go for ~$100, so I'd look into those.

If you make your own cable, you'll have that much more to play with. If I did it, you can do it to. You can make it hook up to your laptop so you can avoid buying a palm pilot.

Something else to think about, if you ever plan on needing bigger than 650cc injectors, the AFC is out.

If it were me, I would get an ostrich and eprom ecu, then run 1000cc injectors. You can run tunerpro or jackal, again, I've done both and both are great. You can always sell the ostrich and put money toward getting link (you'd have to be crazy to do that though).

 

[Mr PopUps]

I just bought a 1991 Talon TSI that has

I need the below items to get the car tuned and running between 250 and 300hp

Is this correct?

I was laying down 282 on the stock: turbo, injectors, SMIC and MAF (ported though).

I think more like 350 would be a better goal. All the stuff you list could support a 20G or FP Red easily, save for the injectors. Why only 15psi? The turbo is barely moving at that boost!

Sheet metal intakes are for 400hp up since they really arent streetable, more for top end. I mean you can use one if you want, just saying.

 

[mikelv]

DSMlink is a pretty awesome solution but i cant see getting a new Eprom ECU for $150

Plus DSM link for $600

and 550cc injectors for $300

$1050 dollars

When i could find a used logger for $100 and a SAFC for $350 plus injectors for $300 making a total of $750

Wait another month and save 300 more dollars, it's not even a conversation to compare an AFC with DSMLink with the amount of limitations you'll have, nevermind the hacked harness you'll have.

Man, it's up to you get what you want but I'm telling you what the best is out there. If you stay around DSM's a while, don't worry you'll be buying Link anyway. Just to even say you can't see spending that much more kinda shows where you're at, so go ahead and go with the AFC. Link might be too much for you anyway.

Where are you spending 300 bucks for 550 injectors anyway. I saw a guy on the Link forums selling a set of 1600's for $140.

Hell, I'll give you a deal, I got a set of 560's I'll sell you for 280, ship them overnight tomorrow free of charge.

Bottom line, if you got 750 bucks right now for this purchase, wait a little longer and get the system you'll never have to change again.

 

[mikelv]

Here is a 1g with close to your setup making 450hp, why? Because he had the ability to completely tune the potential of the car.

Same thing you have, 16G, actually you probably would flow more with the intake manifold you have.

He had a 16g with basic bolt on's in this video clip. You're telling me and everyone on here is saying 250-300hp goal, shit please.....oh and take a guess what type of EMS he has.

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[tkelly27]

"Man, it's up to you get what you want but I'm telling you what the best is out there." Maybe for the 2g... I will say this yet again. DSMlink isn't the end all be all solution. You can buy an ostrich and an eprom ecu for the $ you would have spent on the AFC. No saving required.

Mr. Peepers is also in the 11's and (judging by weight and trap speed) pushing somewhere around 400hp with a E316g with only an AFC and some tricks to run E85. He probably has less $ into his whole car than you have into your link and translator setup.

 

[Prymal]

You make a good point and i should listen to you. i know the feeling of buying cheap to get you started just to want to go spend more in a year for something better. why not just drive the car the way it is now and save for an eprom ecu and dsm link, then get the injectors later. My only other question is would i need to get a wideband sensor with DSM link or is DSM link enough on its own to not need one.

Does Ostrich and Jackle need a socketed ECM or just EROM

 

[mikelv]

"Man, it's up to you get what you want but I'm telling you what the best is out there." Maybe for the 2g... I will say this yet again. DSMlink isn't the end all be all solution. You can buy an ostrich and an eprom ecu for the $ you would have spent on the AFC. No saving required.

Mr. Peepers is also in the 11's and (judging by weight and trap speed) pushing somewhere around 400hp with a E316g with only an AFC and some tricks to run E85. He probably has less $ into his whole car than you have into your link and translator setup.

First off, that video is not my car, I passed the 400hp mark years ago. The numbers I have on here are my 2g daily driver. The point of my discussion is the tuning platform. There are guys running 9's on 660's an a AFC, nothing wrong with the little box.


But I don't care what you say about what, there is no way in hell an AFC will do what Link will do. Yes, Link IS the end all be all solution for about 99.9% of guys on here.

If you don't think so then more power to you. I'm just going to stop because to hear you say that Link isn't the end all...blah....blah....just goes to show what you know.

OP: Man, if you have over 700 dollars saved up for a tuning platform and plan on learning, loving, and building your own DSM with the passion that most of us have, then find someone who's selling a ligit copy of DSMLink V2.5. This way for about the same price, and no matter what you decide to do with the car, you'll have the tuning platform that is proven in the 8's. Regardless if you make a weekend warrior, race car, daily driver, whatever, you'll be set.

I can almost guarantee you can find Link, and set of injectors and a AEM wideband for less, if not 700 bucks. In this economy, there are guys selling shit dirt cheap. Like I said, just today I saw an Aeromotive A1000 AFPR, and a set of FIC 1600cc injectors for 120 bucks. Hell there was a dude selling a fully built 1G head, SI valves, crower springs, FP cams, the whole deal for 500 bucks. That bi*** will turn 9K.

My translator, GM MAF, V2 Link and EPROM: $600-700 bucks.

And look at my mods list, I still haven't out-grown my tuning platform.

Either way man, good luck with whatever choice you make.

 

[mikelv]

You make a good point and i should listen to you. i know the feeling of buying cheap to get you started just to want to go spend more in a year for something better. why not just drive the car the way it is now and save for an eprom ecu and dsm link, then get the injectors later. My only other question is would i need to get a wideband sensor with DSM link or is DSM link enough on its own to not need one.

Does Ostrich and Jackle need a socketed ECM or just EROM

To answer your question, DSM Link is an integrated circuit in your original EPROM ECU.

The Link has the ability to "tie" in different sensors such as AEM, but it doesn't have it's own wideband built in, the last time I checked. I am still running V2 so I'm not fully up to speed on V3, but I'm sure it's got most the same and then some.

Anyways, DSMLink utilizes the DSM's ECU allowing you to maintain most of all your stock parameters while having the benefit of a lot of stand alone features.

Don't mind me though, it's kind of late and I must be getting some sleep. I will post some more details, links, and information tomorrow when I'm not out of it.

You can PM as well if you want some help figuring this out brother, don't worry we got your back.

 

[donniekak]

For now, you could get a logger, safc, and turn your fuel pressure up to 60 psi if you have a walbro. So for the price of a palm and cable-$30, safc-$100, bigger 450cc injectors-free, you have a decent little setup. 450's at 60 psi base pressure are about 570cc ish if i recall. I ran 22 psi on turned up 450's and 90 ish idc's.

 

[mikelv]

Dude, just save your money, do some research and shop around for the right shit. Don't go ghetto-fied, all you're going to do is break things.

What's the saying? Trying to fit 10lbs of shit in a 5lbs bag....it only stinks.


EDIT------ Here's an example, I know it's a 2g but just to show it they're out there, just gotta take a look:

ECMTuning User Support Forums

In case you need a log in, I'll quote it:

2g v2 link
Got an extra that I don't need so up for sale it goes. 425 shipped?

If thats too much feel free to shoot an offer, just keep it semi reasonable. No I won't take 200 for it.

 

[GrnZ]

Get an SAFC, set of 550 or 560cc injectors,and an aem uego wideband.

$100-safc
$150-injectors
$50-Walbro 255 pump
$200-AEM uego wideband

=$500 total

Those are prices you will most likely find from people on your local dsm forum, i suggest by a NEW wideband to ensure a good sensor.

 

[dsm-onster]

First off. What is your goal? The 1g maf will overrun and drop counts LONG before you really push that turbo. The stock 14b can overrun a 1g maf's metering ability. So you're right that you need another maf if you want to run at a flow that will merrit the upgrade to the 16g. The 2g maf works good, if you have an safc to correct for it's output. BUT, a gm maf and translator is a maf upgrade and fuel controller all in one.

Second. 550cc injectors will NOT go to the full potential of the 16g alone. You need to either raise the base fuel pressure to 60psi (this gives you exactly 650cc of flow per injector) and tune for 650s. The wally 255hp can handle this jsut fine up to far beyond the limit of any 16g turbo. Or if you havn't bought injectors yet just get the 650s. Your ultimate goal will determine your injector choice, yes. But, I've pushed a 14b to where 550s were at 80% IDC though. Like I said if you want to have the fuel/tuning room for airflow that merrits the upgrade to a 16g in the first place, you should definately just settle on the 650s. Or if you can get 550s for significantly less, then you can use your adjustable fuel pressure regulator to have them flow more and retune.

Besides, turn the base fuel pressure up to 60psi and your 450s flow like 550s anyway. So upgrading to 550s is just not really a cost effective solution for more fuel anymore.

For those that don't like the PDA, there's a tunerstein logging solution for your lap top. You will need the cable but the software is free. And it's not bad. You get to see and save graphs of what's happening on your laptop. Tunerstein with my cable solution worked fine from what I remember about 2 years ago with a keyspan serial to usb adapter too. So you can run your modern laptop that doesnot have a serial port.

Easiest logger to use though for the 1g is the scanmaster3, IMHO. You don't need a laptop. And there's an port out the back that you can use with your laptop or pda to see and save the data. But your really don't need the laptop or pda because you get to see in real time the knock counts and o2 voltage and timing and fuel trims and IAT, coolant T, trouble codes, etc. You can have it set up so that both knock AND someother feature is being seen at the same time. And there's inputs for an lc-1 or lm-1 wideband (or any linear wideband that can be set to those standard outputs) and you can run a gm 3bar sensor at the same time. So when you get this, you don't need to buy the WB gauge or a boost gauge if you have the right WB sensor and a gm3bar sensor.

It's pretty nice. The output for the laptop or pda is a standard phone jack. So I spliced a serial input to a 4wire phone cord. I can't remember the exact orientation of the wires in reference to the serial pins, but it was rather simple to do. But it comes with an adapter anyway I think.