Newbie ForumBeginner/newbie/general DSM questions. first mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum. New Members must limit their tech posts to this forum and sub-forums.
Good luck with the build, pics would be nice.
Why the big 16g though ? For the same price you can get yourself an evo3 16g, spools almost as quick as a small 16g and has good top end like the big 16g, best of both worlds.
As for o2 housings, ebay has lots of them for cheap, 2.5" as well for max flow.
Is that so ? So tell me what turbo do people mostly get and make serious power out from the most ? Certainly the evo3 16g's...
And spool is almost as fast as the small 16g, not AS FAST, like i said...
i will get some pics up as soon as i can, i cant find my camera at this moment..my question is, will i need to upgrade my injectors if i get this manifold and turbo with a Downpipe back, cause ive heard with the 1g when you switch to bigger injectors you gotta do something with the computer.
Is that so ? So tell me what turbo do people mostly get and make serious power out from the most ? Certainly the evo3 16g's...
And spool is almost as fast as the small 16g, not AS FAST, like i said...
The E316g certainly doesn't spool as fast as the small 16g and makes more power than the big 16g, but the build looks good from this end.
What are your goals?
Any pics?
My goals are a quick daily driver maybe 250-300awhp. Im pretty sure im not going to see that with my list of upgrades, but its a start. BTW the parts already on the car is a Punishment Racing Front Mount, and a greddy type RS BOV.
No you will not need larger injectors with those upgrades. The only time you really need to mess with the computer (ECU) is when you start upgrading with the fuel system, or the MAS/MAF. So if you did upgrade your injectors, you then would need to manage the ECU in some way (SAFC). By your future mods list, you should definitely get larger injectors. The SAFC will easily support 550s, but if you wanted to go much higher you will need a better system, or an EPROM chip to bring your timing tables back where they should be. Without the injectors, what is the point of the SAFC? It will allow you tune out all the factory rich condition our cars come with, but not much more.
1. 2g mas and 550cc injectors
2. 3in exhaust
3. ebay o2 housing with external dump
4. small 16g (if your goals are no higher than 320ish whp)
5. walbro 190lph fuel pump with a rewire
If you are on a budget, a used set of EVO8/9 injectors for $100 will give you more than enough fuel for 300HP. But, as others have said, you will also need a fuelpump and MAS upgrade to go with it. If you stick with an EVO8/9 fuelpump you can probably get away without an AFPR, and just lean the idle out with the AFC if you overrun the stock FPR.
Have you checked to see if you have an EPROM ECU? 89-94 EPROM Check
You *can* compensate for larger injectors and a 2G MAS with the AFC, but its going to add extra timing advance, which will cause knock issues. Also, the factory timing maps stop at <15psi, so you are going to have the same timing at 20psi as the factory only intended for 15psi. That's the main reason that a chip is the better solution.
With that FMIC, bigger exhaust, and enough fuel, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to run 20+ psi, as much as your octane will allow. I just had one customer with that setup and an EVO3 16G do 358 awhp @ 23psi with nothing to tune with except my chip.
keydiver
My goals are a quick daily driver maybe 250-300awhp. Im pretty sure im not going to see that with my list of upgrades, but its a start. BTW the parts already on the car is a Punishment Racing Front Mount, and a greddy type RS BOV.
300awhp is pretty easy to achieve with bolt ons and 16g
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92gsxecl1pse
....Big 16g turbo, ported exhaust manifold, Apexi Downpipe, custom Pipeing with a HKS Carbon Ti catback, Apexi SAFC 2, and an AEM Wideband...
I would get a Megan racing DP instead of Apexi...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsmj89
....As for o2 housings, ebay has lots of them for cheap....
x2 on Ebay o2 Housings, you can find them from $65-75 Shipped and they work great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bane3d
Do your maintenance first....
Fuel Pump (rewire)
FPR
Injectors
FMIC
x2 on Maintenance, its definetly a *Must*, especially if DD
No you will not need larger injectors with those upgrades. The only time you really need to mess with the computer (ECU) is when you start upgrading with the fuel system, or the MAS/MAF. So if you did upgrade your injectors, you then would need to manage the ECU in some way (SAFC). By your future mods list, you should definitely get larger injectors. The SAFC will easily support 550s, but if you wanted to go much higher you will need a better system, or an EPROM chip to bring your timing tables back where they should be. Without the injectors, what is the point of the SAFC? It will allow you tune out all the factory rich condition our cars come with, but not much more.
Just making sure ive got everything straight..with an evo3 16g, ported exhaust manifold, o2 housing, downpipe back exhaust the stock 450cc injectors will be fine, but will i need a bigger fuel pump to support those mods tho.
The EVO3 turbo is worthless if you aren't going to upgrade the injectors. The stock 14b can easily do the 16-17 psi that the stock injectors will limit you to. If you're on that tight of a budget, just throw the bigger exhaust and FMIC on there, a manual boost controller, and turn up the boost. You REALLY should also have a logger though, to monitor the knock, although the wideband will tell you when you're running out of injector or overrunning the MAS. Tune the AFC HIGH settings for a nice 11.0:1 at WOT. The AFC LOW settings shouldn't need to be adjusted.
keydiver
I have read that if you upgrade to a 2g MAS and evo 8/9 injectors, you can do without the SAFC for a while and run very good. The reason behind this is the evo injectors flow at about 580cc (even though they are marked as 560s). The 2g MAS reads about 30% less air flowing into the engine. So these cancel each other out (basically), and provide the correct amount of fuel. This isn't an exact science, but luckily our cars run naturally rich, so it give some room to play as this will lean it out a bit.
Agree with most that was stated above. If you spend some time on the net and especially local dsm boards, you can often find used parts at nearly half price of new.
A used exhaust, o2 housing, exh manifold, all work just as well as a brand new part. Most mechanical items are quite easy to visually check for condition as well so there is little risk in buying used.
Granted; turbochargers, electronics, injectors, fuel pumps and the like are always going to be a risk to buy used since visual checks don't mean much.
good luck with the build. Injectors, 550's, and a 2g maf should be on your list well before the 16g.
ive been tryin to look up stuff about this 2g MAS thing, im not havin alot of luck...can someone give me some info or something about this swap, and its pro;s and cons.
ive been tryin to look up stuff about this 2g MAS thing, im not havin alot of luck...can someone give me some info or something about this swap, and its pro;s and cons.
The 2g maf is calbrated differently than your stock maf. For the same amount of airflow a 2G maf sensor will put out roughly 30% less signal into the ECU. When you combine the 2g maf with a ~30% larger fuel injectors (550's) the fuel delivered to the engine is in the ballpark.
What this gets you is the ability to flow significantly more air into the engine without hitting fuel cut. With your stock maf/injectors you will run into fuel cut before getting close to making your potential power. The 2g maf also has a stable signal at much higher flow rates than a 1g maf.
The 2g maf is shaped different, and you will need a 2g specific intake pipe and air filter, as well as rewiring the plug for the 2g meter. It's a worthwile swap though.
When you combine the 2g maf with a ~30% larger fuel injectors (550's) the fuel delivered to the engine is in the ballpark.
That 'ballpark' may cause you to melt a piston. Someone last week posted here doing the exact same thing and melted two of their pistons. On top of it, they didn't have any gauges to alert them to running dangerously lean. You need someway to tune your car along with the MAF and the injectors, along with someway of monitoring your A/F. I do not like plugging those on at all without something to control them.
Yes, definately. The suggestion I posted above about the 2g MAF with the 560 injectors alone is cutting extreme corners without a method to tune. Most have done it just fine, but some obviously have melted engines. I know I wouldn't take the risk without the AFC. The wideband is also very important to get a good tune, but a logger of some type is even more important. Make sure that is on the list. A cheap palm with free MMCD software will do. You can make your own cable to attach it to the car, or buy one off ebay for $25. Pocketlogger sells them along with their software for like $100 or something...
i just ordered my turbo and oil lines, i think im gonna just install the turbo with the downpipe back and a ported o2 housing cause i need to do some suspension work to the car, the previous owner cut the springs so im not sure how long that car has been sitting on the struts so imma replace them. Im not sure if i wanna run coilovers, or run the kyb agx struts with eibach pro kit *heard great things bout that set up* i was looking into that 2g MAF swap and that looks like it will cost me some money cause i dont have anything to tune it with. Unless itsl ike a plug and play try thing.
Defiantly go through and get any needed maintenance done if you haven't done that yet.
I'd also recommend an Evo III 16G over the big 16G. It will defiantly get you to your goal. You can also save money and go with a Megan Racing Cart-back over the HKS carbon Ti if you wanted.
i ordered a evo3 16g off extreme PSI and i also found this deal off exreme PSI it's a Fuel managment kit, comes with a Apexi Neo AFC, my choice of prescion injectors, a Walbro 190, 255, or 255 high pressure, for $640. i was thinking of ordering it, but my fuel pump in my Firebird whent out so that cuts into my funds which sucks.
But can someone tell me about this DsmLink will i be able to watch this knock problem ive been hearing about or can i just replace with with a new knock sensor from like Napa or something.
I got the turbo today, im so excited i think for right now the turbo is my only upgrade...cause i need to fix the fuel pump in my other car, plus i need to get suspension fixed. The engine ran really great when i first bought the car, but then the headgasket blew. ive had the head off for awhile now cause its at a shop getting rebuilt and resurfaced. I found some pics of my GSX ill upload them after work.
i got my turbo, i wouldnt have ordered it but my 14b blew out..so i just figured get the good one. But i need the oil sending and return lines...Does anyone have some for sale, a couple websites i found there like $70 for OEM lines, i dont wanna pay that much for a piece unless i cant find any for cheaper.
