Another ethanol question.

[_DeS_]

Ok I've read all the threads on using e-85 but got very confused because many people would argue this and that. That I don't know who to belive anymore
From people that are currently running e-85 what did you have to change in order to run e-85 safely? What should your AFR's be set at? at Idle at wot?

I'm currently running:
welbroh 255
FIC 850
AEM Fuel Rail
Aromotive FPR
DSMLINK
FP GREEN(Not sure if that makes a difference.)

What would I have to change from the list?
Thanks in advance

 

[viperlp01]

From what i read you will have the same A/F's, those should never change. You need to add 30% fuel so you will need bigger injectors. You will need to flow enough fuel to feed them injectors. Rewire the pump and make sure you watch your injector duty cycle. Watch for knock, in your case pulling time. Im planning on doing it next year. My mods will be 1200cc inj, walbro 255 hp, DSMlink v3, Im going with bigger feed lines and a afpr but i don't think you will need the bigger fuel lines. That is about it besides my turbo going bigger.

 

[_DeS_]

Lol I just upgraded to the 850 from my 680's , I guess they are for sell now. Would 1000's be good enough? What about upgrading the lines? Alot of people have said that you need to upgrade the lines to stainless steel. Any input?

 

[matthewdesigns]

You do not need bigger injectors, you need to add a WBo2 setup to know when you are running lean if you don't have one. You ask what afr's need to be, so maybe you ahve one, but you don't list a wb. I have mine set to read as with pump gas, and am idling mid 14's:1, and am at about 11.7:1 at WOT. I don't seem to make any more power leaner than that (butt dyno).

Use Link to add in some timing. I'm up to 20* at the top of the map, people are having success with 22-24* as well. 22* seems to be a nice safe place to be for a lot of people.

You can use stock injectors with e85 as long as you don't boost too high. It's all about the amount of air you are pushing, and the fuel you need for it, no different than gas in that respect. I'm using 950's with an Evo316g at up to 28psi and am not running out of fuel. If you want to run high boost pressures, then yes, you'll need bigger injectors. Otherwise, get a wb and log IDC on Link and you'll be fine as long as you don't stress the system too much.

There are people locally who have been using e85 for 2+ years and I don't know of anyone who has eaten through any lines. Do, however, check and/or replace your fuel filter after a few tanks, as the ethanol will loosen old built-up gasoline gunk and it can clog the filter, leading to lean conditions.

 

[deflator]

How much boost are you planning to run on E85?

Upgrading the lines is optional for most. With a Green, you may want to go to -8AN, but I'm pretty sure you can go far without it.

850's will not be enough for high boost, people have maxxed those out with an E16G, I would go with FIC 1150's at least.

AFR's is confusing, since Ethanol has a different stoich that gas. Your wideband will show you a gas AFR, which you would have to recalculate to ethanol AFR (14.7:1 gas, 9.7:1 ethanol). Unless you have an LC-1 which is adjustable for different kinds of fuel.

Then look up on the DSMlink forums for how to adjust global for E85 for your injectors

 

[notched306]

You do not need bigger injectors, you need to add a WBo2 setup to know when you are running lean if you don't have one. You ask what afr's need to be, so maybe you ahve one, but you don't list a wb. I have mine set to read as with pump gas, and am idling mid 14's:1, and am at about 11.7:1 at WOT. I don't seem to make any more power leaner than that (butt dyno).

Use Link to add in some timing. I'm up to 20* at the top of the map, people are having success with 22-24* as well. 22* seems to be a nice safe place to be for a lot of people.

You can use stock injectors with e85 as long as you don't boost too high. It's all about the amount of air you are pushing, and the fuel you need for it, no different than gas in that respect. I'm using 950's with an Evo316g at up to 28psi and am not running out of fuel. If you want to run high boost pressures, then yes, you'll need bigger injectors. Otherwise, get a wb and log IDC on Link and you'll be fine as long as you don't stress the system too much.

There are people locally who have been using e85 for 2+ years and I don't know of anyone who has eaten through any lines. Do, however, check and/or replace your fuel filter after a few tanks, as the ethanol will loosen old built-up gasoline gunk and it can clog the filter, leading to lean conditions.

you just about hit the nail on the head

How much boost are you planning to run on E85?

Upgrading the lines is optional for most. With a Green, you may want to go to -8AN, but I'm pretty sure you can go far without it.

850's will not be enough for high boost, people have maxxed those out with an E16G, I would go with FIC 1150's at least.

AFR's is confusing, since Ethanol has a different stoich that gas. Your wideband will show you a gas AFR, which you would have to recalculate to ethanol AFR (14.7:1 gas, 9.7:1 ethanol). Unless you have an LC-1 which is adjustable for different kinds of fuel.

Then look up on the DSMlink forums for how to adjust global for E85 for your injectors

you dont have to recal your gas wb,you just shoot for the same numbers as gas.

 

[deflator]

you dont have to recal your gas wb,you just shoot for the same numbers as gas.

That's something I haven't been able to figure out. Is what the wideband is displaying accurate then? Or is the AFR showing 14.7 on the gauge but its really 9.7 since the stoichs are different? If that is the case, then WOT tuning you'll always be way richer than you think you are.

People say tune for a little under 12:1 on E85, but would that be gas numbers? I just find it very confusing.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I can set up my AEM UEGO to output/interpret the signal in a variety of ways. As it arrived boxed from the factory, without changing any settings on the back of the gauge, it displays correctly for any fuel I use, from pump91, to race gas, to e85. I do not have to do any math to get the correct reading for different fuels. Stoich for any fuel used is displayed as 14.7:1.

 

[_DeS_]

You do not need bigger injectors, you need to add a WBo2 setup to know when you are running lean if you don't have one. You ask what afr's need to be, so maybe you ahve one, but you don't list a wb. I have mine set to read as with pump gas, and am idling mid 14's:1, and am at about 11.7:1 at WOT. I don't seem to make any more power leaner than that (butt dyno).

Use Link to add in some timing. I'm up to 20* at the top of the map, people are having success with 22-24* as well. 22* seems to be a nice safe place to be for a lot of people.

You can use stock injectors with e85 as long as you don't boost too high. It's all about the amount of air you are pushing, and the fuel you need for it, no different than gas in that respect. I'm using 950's with an Evo316g at up to 28psi and am not running out of fuel. If you want to run high boost pressures, then yes, you'll need bigger injectors. Otherwise, get a wb and log IDC on Link and you'll be fine as long as you don't stress the system too much.

There are people locally who have been using e85 for 2+ years and I don't know of anyone who has eaten through any lines. Do, however, check and/or replace your fuel filter after a few tanks, as the ethanol will loosen old built-up gasoline gunk and it can clog the filter, leading to lean conditions.

^^Good post man
Ya I have a wideband forgot to post it.
So from the information that I have gathered. I pretty much have everything I need to run low boost expect that I would need to change my fuel filter after a couple of tanks. If I ever have the need to run higher boost all I have to do is change my injectors to something bigger(Which I will do)
I guess I'm going to try e-85 this weekend. Wish me luck

 

[matthewdesigns]

Just pull it and check to see if it's full of crap, you may not need to change it out. Mine is not clogged after months of e85 being run through the system.

You'll want to run the tank as close to empty as possible. I usually go about 40 miles past the point where the low fuel light is on full time. This will ensure that you have as little gas left in the tank as possible. After you fill up with e85, drive around for 10-15 minutes to make sure all the gas is out of the lines before you start hammering on it .

Good luck!

 

[deflator]

Stoich for any fuel used is displayed as 14.7:1.

Okay I understand now, thanks