SAFC or DSMlink

[gstxtt]

I bought this car with an air filter and a 14b un tuned whats better all i want to accomplish is to have a properly tuned daily driven car. I'm running very rich right now and i'd like to lean it out a little. The car will not have very many mods in the future so what will work best. Thanks

 

[1992awdlaser]

Dsmlink is obviously better than an SAFC. Any specific questions that couldn't have easily been answered with a search?

 

[gstxtt]

Most of the posts I've searched were biased for a more tuned car then what im aiming for. I was just asking if the SAFC could do the tuning that I need it to do or if i am going to need DSMlink to get it to run properly. Sorry about the repeated question.

 

[1992awdlaser]

The Safc will work fine provided you don't go bigger than 650cc injectors.

 

[MoparDSM]

For what you are going for an SAFC will definitely cover your needs. You can find a good used one reasonably cheap as well. No need to spend big for dsmlink if you are staying close to stock.

 

[JusMX141]

If you're still using the stock 450cc injectors, then there must be some other problem causing you to run very rich. The ECU's fuel maps generally work well with 450's....the most an AFC is going to do is some fine-tuning.

Are you sure the o2 sensor is in working condition? How about vacuum line leaks....if the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator is leaking vacuum, the fuel pressure at idle will be far too high- causing a rich condition. How about the check engine light....are there any stored codes causing the ECU to be in a limp mode? There are plenty of things you should inspect and check off the list of diagnostics before you choose an AFC.

 

[Detective Coating]

Umm, how are you even sure you are running rich? Do you have a WBO2?

 

[GSeX02]

safc would be more than fine for your application

 

[z24frank]

I dont think just an air filter would make you run rich.And from what Ive read for basic tuning and adjustments the safc will work fine.I havent installed mine yet but bought mine beacuse the research I did ponted me in that direction.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

The max injectors you should use with an sAFC are 650-680cc's. If your not planning on going bigger then those, go with the sAFC because it will do what you need and cost less then a DSMLink. In the end a DSMLink will let you do more, but, if you don't need it, save the money, in my own opinion.

 

[nikkeebabee]

One thing to keep in mind is that an afc is just tricking the ecu into seeing skewed numbers. Where as with dsmlink it's not...

This is important because when you start to pull a bunch of fuel the ecu is going to add timing which can get very ugly, very fast...

I do agree with minimal mods that an afc would be the way to go though. Just be careful...

 

[JayRolla]

Actually dsm also tricks the ecu but since you can do injector compensation it doesnt need to trick it as much and timing is not an issue. Unless I got this wrong and it actually rewrites the ecu. I know v3 will beable too.

Running 1200cc injectors, e85 and an safc I can get timing to stay at 22* with a base timing of 0*. At 5* I see about 27* max and still with zero knock but thats a little high and most likely losing a little power. Since you a 2g you cant adjust base timing so 680's is about as high as you want to go.

To get all the power you want and run higher boost on that 14b than dsmlink is needed. Its hard to run over 20psi on a stock timing map with a small turbo, so if you had dsmlink you could pull timing to about 14-16* peak and beable to run 22+psi.

 

[1992awdlaser]

DSMLink changes the factory settings. The way the SAFC tricks the ecu is by sending a different signal that what it would be getting with the SAFC at zero. DSMLink doesn't do this.

 

[z24frank]

Actually dsm also tricks the ecu but since you can do injector compensation it doesnt need to trick it as much and timing is not an issue. Unless I got this wrong and it actually rewrites the ecu. I know v3 will beable too.

Running 1200cc injectors, e85 and an safc I can get timing to stay at 22* with a base timing of 0*. At 5* I see about 27* max and still with zero knock but thats a little high and most likely losing a little power. Since you a 2g you cant adjust base timing so 680's is about as high as you want to go.

To get all the power you want and run higher boost on that 14b than dsmlink is needed. Its hard to run over 20psi on a stock timing map with a small turbo, so if you had dsmlink you could pull timing to about 14-16* peak and beable to run 22+psi.

So the 680 rule only applies to 2g huh now I feel better.

 

[JayRolla]

DSMLink changes the factory settings. The way the SAFC tricks the ecu is by sending a different signal that what it would be getting with the SAFC at zero. DSMLink doesn't do this.

I always thought the slider was tricking the ecu with the maf signal, not the actual factory setting. Guess I was wrong.

 

[JayRolla]

So the 680 rule only applies to 2g huh now I feel better.

Without e85, race fuel or meth injection you still will have too much timing on a 1g even if you pull base timing back. So 680's should be the largest without something to allow high timing.

The 1g stock timing map is so aggressive that running any higher boost than 18psi can be a pain. Timing control is almost a must. I get away with it since I run e85.

 

[1992awdlaser]

I always thought the slider was tricking the ecu with the maf signal, not the actual factory setting. Guess I was wrong.

The airflow sliders do send a different signal like you are saying. But you shouldn't need to touch the airflow sliders with a stock maf. You should only need to change them with a gm maf. When you are doing this you are basically just making sure the ecu gets the correct signal from the maf since the signal from a gm maf is different from a stock maf. It's not done for the reason to change the tune like with a SAFC.

 

[Evo8You]

SAFC is def outdated and very limited. DsmLink has much more tuning potential.

 

[z24frank]

so with a meth kit I have more options and can still keep my safc-2

 

[hollywood_ikr]

I think the solution to your question depends entirely on your plans for the future... If you want to do more upgrades down the road, DSMlink is definately the way to go. However, if you are not going to mod much more than what you are currently running, SAFC might be a more suitable aletrnative for your budget.

Frankly for any situation I would recommend the DSMlink (since it's one of the only mods I know of that actually increase the value of my car ), but if the cash is not there SAFC is a good alternative as well.

 

[JayRolla]

The airflow sliders do send a different signal like you are saying. But you shouldn't need to touch the airflow sliders with a stock maf. You should only need to change them with a gm maf. When you are doing this you are basically just making sure the ecu gets the correct signal from the maf since the signal from a gm maf is different from a stock maf. It's not done for the reason to change the tune like with a SAFC.

Yea I understand that. I thought when you changed the fuel slider though it tricked the maf so you can get fuel adjustment, but its usually minimal so it wont affect timing since you adjust the ecu to the correct size.

But now that v3 is coming its direct eprom editing which I thought was the difference. So when you adjust the fuel slider it actually rewrites the ecu's fuel curve and not trick the maf to make the adjustment on v2 right?

My buddy just bought a vr4 with aem and is going to go that route and is selling me his eprom and v2 for a good price on payments. When I have the $175 I'll upgrade and it will end up about the same price still so I might as well get the v2 now at this good price.

So I should have link within a few weeks I hope. I'm so excited!!!!

 

[dsm-onster]

Both V2 and V3 allows you to adjust the fuel curve alone. No need to alter airflow input. Though altering airflow input is possible, as mentioned, for the ability to calibrate other mafs to use with dsmlink. There has been a misunderstanding about how dsmlink alters the fuel curve for some time and competitors have been stating that dsmlink doesn't directly alter the fuel map; which of course is rediculous, if you actually have dsmlink and see how it works.

V3 will allow you to easily adjust each cell individually on the fuel map. V2 uses a slider to adjust the whole row of cells at an rpm point. It extrapolates the curve to smooth out the map for you. V3 will still provide "slider control" for the maps, but it will add a feature to go to each cell if you really need to, which 99.9999% don't.

 

[JayRolla]

Thats good to know. Ive only played with dsmlink on my buddys car. Cant wait to have it, im all excited!!