Timing

[Fric0]

I've got the infamous idle surge, though commonly assumed as a vacuum leak correct? Well, a tech looked at it and couldnt find a leak anywhere, thinks its a timing problem. I've got some symptoms and i just want to confirm with you guys on what it might be.

-Idle surge
-Fuel cut
-Wont start when hot (or ran for a bit)
-Throttle likes to stick.. and i've moved the spring to its full extent and its starting to stick again. (sticks at around 4k rmp)

=I've got a new timing belt, balance shaft belt, o2 sensor, and tps sensor. I put in a new k&n air filter (went along with the "Wont start when hot" in the maint. book) I hear the tensioner is a biash to deal with, i'll get a new one if needed.

Any help?

 

[EvansF]

Sound like your MAF is broken. Try to find a used 1 , its cheap, replace it.
then if its not ## problem, ill guess maybe its your CAS.

 

[PIMking]

I have one Let me know if you want it. I will take pics for you to see. name your price.

 

[turbotalawd]

Is the TPS sensor adjusted? Make sure your timing is set to 5* TDC and that your idle is set correctly.

 

[Fric0]

My MAF would cuase the idle surge? How badly does it hurt my a/f mixture?

 

[Fric0]

Anyone? and for PIMKing, I found one on Ebay for like 35 bucks.. whats your price? Beats napa (230.00) and dealer(560.00)

 

[Mr Peepers]

I would first start with the free checks instead of replacing parts.

Do a boost leak test to properly look for leaks.

Set your timing to 5* BTDC as stated earlier, with the ECU grounded, car fully warmed up, and idle at ~750 rpm. You may have to set the idle and timing at the same time.

Holy shit! $560 for a 2g MAS?

 

[PIMking]

Let me take some pics of it tomarrow to make sure you want it. the MAF works fine I took it out because it had one of them hks foam filters on it and the centre screw was gone so i found another. But it works and you should be able to take the maf out of the can and put in yours. I will do 35 shipped

EDIT:

This is a 1g air can. with sensor.

 

[Fric0]

we've checked for a vacuum leak (commonly causing the idle surge) and we have found none. today i used a timing light and messed with the timing on the distributor cap, didnt help at all. Im replacing most of my parts PM anyway. I replaced o2 sensor so far, soon TPS, timing belt, balance shaft belt. I cleaned out the spark plugs and made sure the wires were still good. yes, it is a 1g

 

[Mr Peepers]

But how did you check for vacuum leaks? Just look around/wiggle stuff or pressurized the intake tract?

When you say you messed with the timing, did you set it to 5* BTDC or turn it both ways to see if there was any change.

Please be more specific.

 

[Fric0]

It was one of those timing lights that you get to move it so many degrees. When i was talking that it was being off time, I was saying that the crankshaft may be off a spoke. our senior tech says that it does play hell with vacuum and fuel.

Any pics pimking?

 

[AlaskanDsm]

Well if you want believe that its your timeing then check the timing marks on your cams. Its not hard and it only takes a straight edge. If you remove the timing belt cover, should be three screws, would can very easily check it. All you have to do is line up the timing marks on the cam gears so they would form a horizontal line and check with the straight edge. You will know if it is a tooth off. I don't know if the crank timing marks have to be lined up though. Anyone?

Also as Mr. peepers asked... HOW did you check for vacuum leaks? I would really listen to his input as he is VERY smart and helpful. If you didn't do a BLT then you might still have a vacuum leak(s). One of the most common for the idle surge would be the Idle screw o-ring. It dries out and becomes a leak causing idle surge. It happened to my GSX when I bought it.

 

[Fric0]

We used a stethoscope type deal, sprayed all the vacuum lines down with carb cleaner to see if we could detect it. Im about to use the smoke machine on it and see if we cant find it that way. Also on the throttle body there is a spring thats connected to a screw, looks rigged but i had to put it (the spring) all the way to the end of the screw becuase it kept wanting to idle at 3 to 4k after i stepped on the gas. Im gonna try to get a chord for my camera so i can show you all some pics of this.

 

[DanThMan1983]

I have the same thing going on with my car, I double checked timing, its right on. my question is what do you guys mean by setting the idle? the screw on top of the throttle body?

EDIT>> Also when its warmed up the surge goes away

 

[Fric0]

Mine doesnt, when its cold it idles high for a few seconds (10 or so) then surges.

Now the spring i was talking about is this one

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I was told that i just might as well get a new TB. or is there am easy fix? I cleaned out my TB and i've still got a throttle stick for a sec after i let off the gas.

I bought this car as-is just hoping to fix it up

 

[Fric0]

anything?

 

[Fric0]

I guess im a lost ball in tall grass..?

 

[DanThMan1983]

Did you ground the timing adjustment connector when you adjusted timing? I really think timing is the problem

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

go to vfaq.com and look there on maintenance.. you need to actually ground the test plug, and adjust your cas, tps, and biss as recommended by the manual.. That is where you should start out first.. these things are a bi*** to do, because you have to adjust alot of stuff when you do it (if you do it right).. If you just go messing with the biss, you will get it more off than it was before.. it may be cool for a minute, then it will go off, and you will have to readjust again..

 

[bastarddsm]

check to make sure your cam timing is correct. it won't idle for shit if it isn't.

 

[Fric0]

Cam timing is, Crank timing is what i was curious about