Tuning 1g w/2g mas, 510cc, 190, 1g n/a fpr and SAFC

[Abe]

Hello,

I just got my '93 Tsi AWD back on the road after a couple years with a dead engine. I've been drving it around for awhile with the stock parts while the rings seated. Now I'm ready to install the good stuff I bought for it.

It already has a ported head, 8.5:1 2g pistons, ported evo 16g, HKS 264/272 cams, ported 2g ex mani and o2 housing, 190 hotwired walbro, no balance shafts and a (really old) Technomotive stage 3 ECU.

I just installed the SAFC, 510cc yellow top injectors, 1g n/t FPR (to get a bit more out of the 510s, I'm pretty broke these days....) and 2g mas. I haven't even started the car since I put the parts in.

I'd just like a to hear some suggestions on initial settings as I've never used the SAFC before. I realize this is a somewhat odd ball set up I've got here. I've looked at alot of different setups and RRE's set up tips but I haven't seen one with the combination of 510s AND 2g mas AND 1g n/t FPR. I have a logger with MMCD but that is my only tuning device unfortunately.

Anyway, I appreciate any help you happen to offer me. Thanks for your time.

Abe

 

[scottd60]

Abe,

Our setup is very similar...550's though and Big16G, EVO III O2 HKS cams, ect. look in my profile for full list of mods. We are currently Dyno tuned from Extreme Motorsports Extreme Motorsports in Odenton MD with Apexi SAFC. Our A/F is a nice flat 11.6-12.0 from 3,000-7,000 rpm, @ 18# boost we made 288.2 HP @ 6,000 and flat torque curve of 267.2 lb from 3,700 to about 6,000 rpm. We are also running a 2G MAF on 1G to 2G Dejon intake. I was able to get ours close using a Innovative LM-1 wide band O2/logger to where we weren't lean before we could get it to the shop for the dyno tune.
I can give you the Apexi SAFC Hi & Lo settings from our dyno tune...that should get you close...but without a wide band O2 you really will not know for sure where you are.

Scott

 

[JayRolla]

If the ecu has no fuel controls then I would setup your fuel trims. Then after that I would start with +5 accross the hi and do a log, if you see knock add some more fuel and if it helps you know your in the right direction. Maybe even start at +10 to be safe.

 

[tbonitz301]

Why would you add so much air? Wouldnt you want to do your lo-throttle first.Dont you mean -10%

 

[bastarddsm]

I seem to remebering that a 2g maf balances out 550's quite well. so you might just make an easy pull with it zeroed out and go from there.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I'm not very familiar with the TechnoMotive chips, but I'm guessing they include compensation for larger injectors. What is the chip set for?

 

[Abe]

The Techonomotive ECU is just a stocker that has a higher rev limit, eliminates fuel cut, has a "stutterbox" for the clutch and selectable "gauges" on the stock boost gauge. This was on the car when I bought it years ago and makes no changes to the stock fuel maps.

Thanks for the advice.

Abe

 

[spyderturbo007]

Sweet, I learned something new today.

The 2g MAS compensates for 550cc injectors pretty well, but not perfectly. With the 510's and the 2g MAS, we can guess, mathematically, that you'll be adding about 7% fuel with the SAFC, but you'll know when looking at your logger.

 

[Abe]

So I did some lo throttle tuning this afternoon. It didn't seem too far off to begin with. I found myself taking away a little fuel (I suppose this is to be expected), and got the o2 to cycle quite nicely.

It has some part throttle knock (up to around 14 counts, my base timing is 5* BTDC) around the 1600-2200 rpm range that I can't seem to tune out. I must admit though, so far my goal has been to keep the fuel trims in the 100 vicinity so I haven't tried that hard. It was also doing this when I was still running the stock parts.

I see JayRolla has suggested +5 or +10 all the way across. I suppose I'll give that a go to start. This part makes me a bit nervous, as I know damage can happen quickly at WOT if things are too lean. What amount of boost would be appropriate to start tuning with? Ultimately, I'd like to run as much boost as possible (surprise, surprise) with this setup. I use 93 octane and quite often toss some toluene or xylene in with it.

Again, Thanks for all the help.

Abe

 

[scottd60]

Abe,

Sorry I took so long...like I said before our car is very similar to yours (see mods in profile). Here are the Lo/Hi fuel trim numbers for our dyno tune.

Lo: 1,000 (+28), 2,000 (+19), 3,000 (+11), 4,000 (+10), 4,200 (+10), 5,000 (+6), 6,000 (+6), 7,000 (+6), 7,200 (+6), 7,400 (+6), 7,600 (+/-0), 7,800 (+/-0)

Hi: 1,000 (+8), 2,000 (-5), 3,000 (-3), 4,000 (-2), 4,200 (-1), 5,000 (-1), 6,000 (-3), 7,000 (-2), 7,200 (-2), 7,400 (+/-0), 7,600 (+/-0), 7,800 (+/-0)

Hope this helps...
Scott

 

[Abe]

Scott,

Thanks, that does help. The more different takes I can get on tuning with the SAFC the better at this point. I have some 650cc injectors on the way. I've been seeing IDCs over 100% with the 510s and no leaks so its time I suppose. I'm going to go back to the stock FPR with the 650s. I just want to keep things as standard and simple as possible for now.

Thanks again.

Abe

 

[JayRolla]

I seem to remebering that a 2g maf balances out 550's quite well. so you might just make an easy pull with it zeroed out and go from there.

Actually you still run lean at wot. I had to add quite a bit of fuel when I was running a 2g maf to get good afr's.

 

[scottd60]

Actually you still run lean at wot. I had to add quite a bit of fuel when I was running a 2g maf to get good afr's.

We had to add on the "Low" and take out on the "Hi"...see my earlier post with SAFC numbers from our dyno tune...our car is almost identical to Abe's...using 550's instead of 510's. You can see our dyno plot in earlier post as well the AFR is spot on all though the power band.

Scott

 

[2of9]

Abe,

Sorry I took so long...like I said before our car is very similar to yours (see mods in profile). Here are the Lo/Hi fuel trim numbers for our dyno tune.

Lo: 1,000 (+28), 2,000 (+19), 3,000 (+11), 4,000 (+10), 4,200 (+10), 5,000 (+6), 6,000 (+6), 7,000 (+6), 7,200 (+6), 7,400 (+6), 7,600 (+/-0), 7,800 (+/-0)

Hi: 1,000 (+8), 2,000 (-5), 3,000 (-3), 4,000 (-2), 4,200 (-1), 5,000 (-1), 6,000 (-3), 7,000 (-2), 7,200 (-2), 7,400 (+/-0), 7,600 (+/-0), 7,800 (+/-0)

Hope this helps...
Scott

i'm just going to revive this thread just because i've got about the same mods as Abe, but without the camshafts. im wondering if the numbers on my safc are correct. it sucks right now because i dont a have a wideband02 to help me out, but i'll probably post pics of my AFR dyno sheet tomoro. i ran the dyno on saturday and seems like im running very rich. any help would be awesome. i also have the stage 3 technomotive ecu also. thanks. my safc reads this:

Lo: 1000(-18) 2000(-18) 3000(-16) 4000(-12) 5000(-10) 6000(-10) 7000(-10) 8000(-10)
Hi: 1000(-14) 2000(-14) 3000(-12) 4000(-10) 5000(-10) 6000(-10) 7000(-10)

reading from other posts...im i suppose to be in the negatives? is that why im running so rich?