420a turbo vs 4G63

[neeland]

Ok im sure this will start a huge debate but its a question i find myself contemplating. I have been doing the research and thinking about getting a good turbo kit for my 420a. I plan on spending atleast 3k and trying to do everything right ( avoiding cheap ebay knock off kits) but here is the question that im gonna pose. By the time i make sure my current 420a is stout enough to hold the boost and i go through the process of buying installing and tuning this new turbo kit. Why wouldnt someone just sell there n/t and take that money and the money they were gonna dump into adding the turbo and buy a gst or gsx?. Is there a benefit to adding the turbo to my 420a? If I have researched correctly my motor does have a higher compression than a 4G63 so i guess that could be a benefit. I would like to hear opinions on both sides of this. Thanks for helping me with my decision process. Im sure this will spark alot of opinions and i appreciate them all

 

[blkwidow]

Where to start....how about......

 

[tbonitz301]

Actually you want lower compression with turbo'. Higher compression usaully means race gas. Most 420a's you see with big power are going to be running on the edge of disaster. People will disagree , but that's my opinion
Btw. thats superhorse. that sumbitch aint dyin

 

[erald01]

+1 Agree boosted cars want a low compression, and NA cars higher. The differences are..let just say HUGE. The benefit of you turbocharging your car is for your experience and to be different.

 

[blkwidow]

And lower insurance costs.

 

[neeland]

ok so the compression issues (due to my thought being the opposite) brings even more decision. If i can drop all this money into the 420a and have it on the " brink of disaster" wouldnt it seem to make more since and probably be just as economical to sell the N/T and find a decent gst or gsx and use the money to finance it?WTF Im sorry if this has been brought up alot but i searched and couldnt find something that specifically listed the pros and cons of both. I dont want to drop 3 grand into an engine that wasnt meant to be turbo if its just going to have a million problems. It seems to me that buying a factory built turbo car would eliminate alot of headache and bugs to work out. If i am wrong or off on this i would like to be corrected.

 

[nfernotalon]

If you put forged internals in the 420a and low compression pistons, then its not a 420a anymore, the most you can boost with 420a is about 8 or 9psi I think, with the 4g63, he he depends but there is a lot of crazy numbers going around lately and thats just a stock 4g63, way capable of over 400 ponies stock given the right set up.

 

[tbonitz301]

To answer your question. Yes. Sell the N/T. Shop for a GST or GSX. You will save money, and have way more potential at the same time

 

[sd_ff22]

Where to start....how about......

Well put Ray.

 

[erald01]

ok so the compression issues (due to my thought being the opposite) brings even more decision. If i can drop all this money into the 420a and have it on the " brink of disaster" wouldnt it seem to make more since and probably be just as economical to sell the N/T and find a decent gst or gsx and use the money to finance it?WTF Im sorry if this has been brought up alot but i searched and couldnt find something that specifically listed the pros and cons of both. I dont want to drop 3 grand into an engine that wasnt meant to be turbo if its just going to have a million problems. It seems to me that buying a factory built turbo car would eliminate alot of headache and bugs to work out. If i am wrong or off on this i would like to be corrected.

You are correct my friend buying a car that is already turbo from the factory is a lot easier, because that engine was build to hold a lot more abusing. It seems to me that you want a reliable, yet fast turbo car, so the best way is to buy either a gst or gsx.

 

[sd_ff22]

I dont want to drop 3 grand into an engine that wasnt meant to be turbo if its just going to have a million problems. It seems to me that buying a factory built turbo car would eliminate alot of headache and bugs to work out.

It seems to me you answered your own question.

 

[nfernotalon]

waitin on the turbo'd 420a guys to defend their ground just kiddin

 

[TSi_with_psi]

Go check out the dyno sheets here on Dsmtuners and look at the 420a turbo'ed cars hp numbers. For the amount of time and money you have to put into a 420a to get decent power numbers, you could have built a 4g63 that would put out at least 100hp more. Frankly i see it as a waste of time and money unless you are doing it to be different, or just for a fun project. 4G63>420A!!

 

[chris712vt]

dun-du-du-dunnnn I'm here to defend us!

First of all, I like both engines. In fact I want to get a tsi-awd or gsx in the future along with my 420a. But anyway....


Look man, it's all up to you. As someone said above, if you build the motor right, it's not the same old 420a anymore. I've got 8.6:1 compression now, fully built motor, and running 8psi. I don't know what boost GSTs run stock, but I know they don't have over 200 whp and wtq at 8psi like I and many other turbo'd 420 guys do.

Basically if you set the motor up to handle a turbo, there is no difference between a 420a and a GST. There's 420s pushing a lot of boost and over 400whp too. Most of what the 4G63 guys are referring to are the people who boost stock 420a motors.

It may be more expensive to go the turbo 420a route, because you need to build the motor unlike the stock turbo DSMs, but there are benefits too. Just do your research before jumping down either path and know what you want.

I personally think if you do things right, the only reason why you'll want to switch over to the 4G6 is for the awd, because at higher power levels you're fwd just won't get traction.

 

[Boost92awd]

To answer your question. Yes. Sell the N/T. Shop for a GST or GSX. You will save money, and have way more potential at the same time

+2 this topic has been beaten to death. A simple search will find all the answers your looking for.

 

[sd_ff22]

Go check out the dyno sheets here on Dsmtuners and look at the 420a turbo'ed cars hp numbers. For the amount of time and money you have to put into a 420a to get decent power numbers, you could have built a 4g63 that would put out at least 100hp more. Frankly i see it as a waste of time and money unless you are doing it to be different, or just for a fun project. 4G63>420A!!

Look for the red... the end.

 

[nfernotalon]

dun-du-du-dunnnn I'm here to defend us!

First of all, I like both engines. In fact I want to get a tsi-awd or gsx in the future along with my 420a. But anyway....


Look man, it's all up to you. As someone said above, if you build the motor right, it's not the same old 420a anymore. I've got 8.6:1 compression now, fully built motor, and running 8psi. I don't know what boost GSTs run stock, but I know they don't have over 200 whp and wtq at 8psi like I and many other turbo'd 420 guys do.

Basically if you set the motor up to handle a turbo, there is no difference between a 420a and a GST. There's 420s pushing a lot of boost and over 400whp too. Most of what the 4G63 guys are referring to are the people who boost stock 420a motors.

It may be more expensive to go the turbo 420a route, because you need to build the motor unlike the stock turbo DSMs, but there are benefits too. Just do your research before jumping down either path and know what you want.

I personally think if you do things right, the only reason why you'll want to switch over to the 4G6 is for the awd, because at higher power levels you're fwd just won't get traction.

Not to mention you have more drivetrain hp loss.. but no biggie turn up the boost one bad thing about awd

more beating has begun...

 

[lgoss5127]

i personally like the 4g63 and they are better than the 420a. well better for a turbo

 

[Car_guy_09]

waitin on the turbo'd 420a guys to defend their ground just kiddin

Im here!! ...But serisly, It depends on what you want. If you want easy power and be like every other DSM, Go for the 4g63. But if you are willing to work a little bit harder to have something a little different, Go for the 420a. The 420a is capable of just as much power, Just a little more work to get it out. I just like the look on peoples faces when i tell them my car is a base ESI

 

[sd_ff22]

I hope you're behaving over in San Diego Dan.

I was texting you all day saturday about my evo3 intake manifold install!

 

[neeland]

thanks everyone for your opinion. I do feel like i answered my own question but just wondered if there was an arguement out there that may persuade me to rethink it. Im gonna play with the n/t for a while and save up some money and then just find a decent gst or gsx...sorry if to be but i hadnt seen any side by side arguements listing pros and cons...but i thinkn im gonna let common sense prevail and avoid all the headache. Maybe another 420a is in my future down the road when i have the money to just play with something and dont have to worry about praying it starts and runs every morning. Thanks to everyone

 

[bxxsted]

I didn't even know that this was a debate any more......4g63 all the way

 

[sd_ff22]

I didn't even know that this was a debate any more......4g63 all the way

WRD

/Thread

 

[lilbro717]

ive seen turbo'd 420a's with some good power but 4g63 all the way, thats just me

 

[Locke]

The 4g63 has more potential with factory internals than the 420a's factory internals. (4g63=400-500whp, 420a=~250whp) If 400whp is your goal, you will spend much less money doing it with a 4g63. If you want 600+whp, (or whatever) internals will have to be upgraded for either engine, and most (or all) of the 4g63's factory turbo pieces will end up being replaced in the pursuit of this goal, similar to what will be done to a 420a with the same goals. Thus cost for these high power engine builds will be similar.

If you are happy with ~200whp, you could just turbocharge your 420a. Depending on availability of factory turbocars in your area and their prices, it may be cheaper to turbo your 420a. For the price I paid for my clean NT plus the cost for would-be equipment needed to get to 300-400whp, will be less than buying a clean unmolested factory 2g turbocar, but your experience may vary.

The 420a is extremely reliable in stock form, and gets very good mileage. Most NT mods won't decrease the reliability of the motor, but nitrous or boost will, depending on the build level.

NT's are cheaper. 4g63's have a larger aftermarket and the option of AWD. They're both interference engines.

edit: Forgot to add 2g in second paragraph. I could buy a 1g turbo AWD for less than I paid for my 2gNT, and I got my FWD 1g for free.