Timing belt installation questions...reinstalled 4 times (videos inside)

[Deadly BlaZe]

Some of you may remember a thread I posted up about how my friend's mechanic messed up my timing belt job. Any way to sum that up, they installed it wrong twice. The 3rd time i tried to install it myself. Timing lined up and everything. Car drove great, couple days later, vacuum readings on gauge changed and boost spooled slower. I said ok no problem, maybe it's normal. Couple days later, vacuum readings got worse and turbo barely spooled to 5 psi by 3k.

So I took it apart again. Timing belt jumped due to tensioner. Re-did it again. Lined up all timing marks. Made sure the tensioner was good (which it was), and got the belt down tight according to specs from vfaq.

Took the car out for a test drive. Car idle'd like ass on initial start up but after time it got more steady, although it still jumps up and down a bit (see video). Vacuum readings were horrendous, even after car warmed up and idle got more steady (see video below). Not a good first impression. So I took the car out for a spin. Car runs GREAT. BETTER than it's ever ran before. It did not hesitate at all, it didn't bog, and the turbo spooled to 15 psi by 3k no problem (see video). Car felt just as much power (if not more) than it ever did. Also, the car does not vibrate at all in high rpms and the exhaust tone is not rough. I also noticed it was a bit hard to start the car up on a cold start. It even died once the first few seconds of cranking it.

Now on to my question. Did I do something wrong again? Is the belt job ok and I just need to adjust something with the idle? I would appreciate any help. I'm really tired of redoing this job over and over. Here are the videos:

Vacuum while idling From my knowledge, it's supposed to sit at 18-20 psi.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKNe4Ndbnd0"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HKNe4Ndbnd0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Vacuum while driving in gear It sits at about 21-22 psi with my foot of the gas. From my knowledge, it's supposed to sit at 24-25.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0VZN7SzdVek"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0VZN7SzdVek" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Full boost by 3k rpm in 4th gear
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/56Jar7mZVpk"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/56Jar7mZVpk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

 

[cruisintalonawd]

do a compression test and leak down test.....also check cas timing and timing marks

 

[Mr Peepers]

Check for possible vacuum leaks as well(leaks behind the throttle plate, BLT will find them)

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

I will check for CAS timing. I'm pretty sure compression is fine since the car pulls really hard and runs fine, but I guess wouldn't hurt to check. And I'm sure it's not a vacuum leak as there were none before I did this install (I check for boost leaks every few months).

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

Checked compression, it was 160-170 across all 4. Any other suggestions guys?

 

[cruisintalonawd]

leak down test

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

leak down test

Nothing personal, but I'm more looking for responses as to the possibilities of what I could've done wrong during the install.

 

[cruisintalonawd]

ok come to think about it you did say it did run really good so that wouldn't show anything

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

Anybody else have any opinions?

 

[Timechg]

At idle I am around 20-21hg, when I am downshifting the engine will pull around 25 hg of vacuum. I think you have your timing set right with no vacuum leaks. Tips on Reading Gauges: Vacuum Gauges that link gives good information on reading the vacuum gauge. Hopefully this helps you out.

Tim

 

[turboAWDfanatic]

If its running great and all that's wrong is the vacuum then maybe you're gauge is off. *shrug*

Double check those timing marks, and check that base timing and idle speed are set correctly (search for how-to on that). Like other people said, check for boost leaks.

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

At idle I am around 20-21hg, when I am downshifting the engine will pull around 25 hg of vacuum. I think you have your timing set right with no vacuum leaks. Tips on Reading Gauges: Vacuum Gauges that link gives good information on reading the vacuum gauge. Hopefully this helps you out.

Tim

Thanks for the link, but according to the site, it's for n/a cars only. Also, according to popular knowledge, vacuum at idle is supposed to be between 18 and 20 inhg. Vacuum in gear with foot off the gas should be at 24-25 inhg.

If its running great and all that's wrong is the vacuum then maybe you're gauge is off. *shrug*

Nah, the gauge is reading right. The idle jumps up and down too, so I know there is something wrong here.

Double check those timing marks, and check that base timing and idle speed are set correctly (search for how-to on that). Like other people said, check for boost leaks.

Will do all that, minus the boost leak test since i've done that countless times already. Thanks for the info guys.

 

[AlaskanDsm]

how does the idle go up and down? Like it surges from 800-1500 and then back??

 

[Whophlungpoo]

Sounds like the belt skipped a tooth, so check the timing marks.

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

how does the idle go up and down? Like it surges from 800-1500 and then back??

Not quite that high. It doesn't really surge, it just bounces up and down from 900-400 like it's dying. In the video it was after the car warmed up, so it was steady then, but still bounces up and down occasionally.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

It sounds cammed WTF. If the car is NOT cammed, I would also suspect that is off a tooth. You need to start from the basics. Pull off your timing covers and verify at TDC that all of your marks are still good. If it is, then you need to go back and verify that your ignition timing is 5* BTDC. My car idled really shitty when the ignition timing was off, so that could be why yours sounds like that. Report back after you have done those two steps, seeing as how they are the most important. Oh and don't base your vacuum readings on what the "norm" is, as with everything else, every car is different.

 

[SethA]

I had an idle issue similar to the one your describing. Mine was 2g ECU related so I don't know if it applies but maybe worth a shot. After some research I read in the factory manual that sometimes after the battery has been disconnected the idle will float around. As dumb as it sounds the remedy is as simple as letting the car idle for a while. I can't remember the specific recommended time but it seemed excessive to me (10 min? maybe).

Anyway, if you had the battery disconnected and your timing belt looks ok and your timing is on you might try letting it idle for a while and see if it figures it out on it's own.

Seth

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

It sounds cammed WTF. If the car is NOT cammed, I would also suspect that is off a tooth.

It's funny that you mention this because the day I came home after doing the timing belt, my neighbor had asked me if I just upgraded my cams...

Pull off your timing covers and verify at TDC that all of your marks are still good. If it is, then you need to go back and verify that your ignition timing is 5* BTDC.

Best advice so far. I will definitely check timing marks again. How do you check if ignition timing is good?

Anyway, if you had the battery disconnected and your timing belt looks ok and your timing is on you might try letting it idle for a while and see if it figures it out on it's own.
Seth

Tried that too. Changed nothing.

 

[meliketoball]

My in/hg or hg/in pulls 20-21 off the gas in gear and is around 15-20 in/hg or hg/in at idle. I think you're fine.

Anyway, if you're idle is surging from 900 to 400 RPM, then check your ISC possibly.

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

My in/hg or hg/in pulls 20-21 off the gas in gear and is around 15-20 in/hg or hg/in at idle. I think you're fine.

How did you come to the conclusion that i'm fine? You can't assume that just because that's what you're car is doing, the same should apply to every one else's. Anyway, before the belt job, it did pull 18-20 inhg at idle and 24/25 inhg in gear, and it idle'd fine, so I know there is something wrong related to timing, nothing else. On top of that, vacuum is not supposed to bounce up and down like that, it should stay steady, atleast on a stock car like mine it should.

 

[meliketoball]

Doesn't vacuum fluctuate with the climate you live in?

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

Doesn't vacuum fluctuate with the climate you live in?

I mean it might go from 18-20 once in a while, but other then that it'll be very steady. But it should not bounce up and down continuously like it does in the vid i posted up.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

It sounds cammed WTF. If the car is NOT cammed, I would also suspect that is off a tooth. You need to start from the basics. Pull off your timing covers and verify at TDC that all of your marks are still good. If it is, then you need to go back and verify that your ignition timing is 5* BTDC. My car idled really shitty when the ignition timing was off, so that could be why yours sounds like that. Report back after you have done those two steps, seeing as how they are the most important. Oh and don't base your vacuum readings on what the "norm" is, as with everything else, every car is different.

^^^ Good info...
The only thing I'd double check is to make sure that your CAS is installed correctly and not 180* off while at TDC. The CAS's (black or green top) have two marks on the housing and the part that rotates... They need to be lined up with the CAS out of the car and THEN install it with #1 at TDC. Once that's done, then set your -5* BTDC base timing.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Engine Timing

 

[Deadly BlaZe]

Engine Timing

Thank you! Will try to do this asap.