Exhaust port poo

[Jrgunn5150]

So I'm slowly tearing into my new Talon to see what the deal is with it. Initialy I got it with the BOV and recirc blocked off, a 3" Turbo back exhaust, and otherwise stock.

On start up, once it begins to warm, it starts to smoke. It's a white smoke, so I thought it was a head gasket and tore into it. I found all the exhaust manifold nut's were finger tight, no gaskets on the turbo outlet, TB, or elbow leading into it. No shaft play in the turbo, no oil in the IC hoses. BUT the exhaust side of the turbo is filled with oily slimy residue, even though my exhaust ports look like this, (not my pic, I stole it, but they look like this)

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Look's like normal carbon to me, no real build up, but if you stick your finger in the port and wipe it, it comes out black and sooty. So anyway, looking for a little direction on which way to go now before I just start spending too much moeny with no solution.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Looks like you're in need of new valve seals.

 

[Plaser]

mine did the same thing with blowing white smoke while it not being headgasket or coolant.. changed turbo and it stopped..

 

[kenamond]

What do your plugs look like? How's your compression? If it's not built up and just a soot film, that seems normal to me. And was the smoke blue-white (mostly white, blue tint) or was it pure white? And have you smelled the smoke? Oil and coolant smoke smell completely different.

If your plugs look black and sooty, I'd check the plug type. If you're running below 17psi-ish boost, you need NGK BPR6ES plugs gapped to 0.028". Maybe the plug that is in there is a colder plug, and it's not staying hot enough to burn deposits off of the tips and eventually fouling or misfiring leading to excess deposits in the exhaust.

The other option is that you have boost leaks. Those will lead to a rich condition under load which will produce more deposits in the exhaust. Do you notice black smoke under load at all (might not be so bad that you see the black smoke)? A boost leak test is still part of the normal maintenance schedule on these cars. Learn how to do it and then do it every other oil change. The first one might require you to fix a lot of little (or big) leaks, but subsequent tests will usually not show anything. It's just the first one that's a pain.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Well it definatley had boost leaks, the BOV was blocked with a piece of cardboard, . I dunno if they attempted to actually drive it like this or not.

Cranking compression checked in the upper 160's acrossed all four cylinder's, which is what confounded me. It acted like a blown headgasket, but had not symptom's, no oil in water or vice verse, no bubbling coolant.

It doesn't smoke immediately on start up, it need's to sit and idle for 30 seconds or so.

The Turbo has a thick oily slime in the exhaust side, whereas the head and manifold only have a light soot that seems normal to me. Another thing is the manifold gasket was separated when I pulled it as well. I'll get some pics of my own motor up here shortly.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Here are pics of my motor, best I could do.

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[talontd92tsi]

Sounds like some serious valve seal issues to me, that and you might want to clean your intercooler/pipes. its weird that its dry in the head but wet in the turbo... does it smoke under boost?

 

[qiklitltsi]

I would have to say valve seals also.

 

[kenamond]

Well it definatley had boost leaks, the BOV was blocked with a piece of cardboard, . I dunno if they attempted to actually drive it like this or not.

Cranking compression checked in the upper 160's acrossed all four cylinder's, which is what confounded me. It acted like a blown headgasket, but had not symptom's, no oil in water or vice verse, no bubbling coolant.

It doesn't smoke immediately on start up, it need's to sit and idle for 30 seconds or so.

The Turbo has a thick oily slime in the exhaust side, whereas the head and manifold only have a light soot that seems normal to me. Another thing is the manifold gasket was separated when I pulled it as well. I'll get some pics of my own motor up here shortly.

It looks like the exhaust ports are just sooty (no oil) on all four cylinders. But it looks like there's oil in the inlet to the turbine housing. Is there oil in the exhaust manifold? If so, only certain runners?

I don't know how there'd be oil in the turbine entrance but not in the manifold as well; there's no oil line connected to the exhaust mani or turbine housing.

But one thing you should do is disconnect the turbine housing from the center section (I'm not sure if that turbo has a band clamp or bolts), but you should be able to pull that off (disconnect the downpipe from the O2 housing, remove the O2 sensor, and pull the turbine and O2 housings off of the center section as one unit). It might be that the seals on the turbine side of the center section are blown and it's pumping oil into the O2 housing. But I don't see why that oil would go upwind to the turbine inlet. Anyway, with the turbine housing off, you'll be able to see the turbine wheel and see if it falls off with the housing (mine did when I blew my T25 ). Maybe you can see some clues then.

And the gasket you said was separated...you mean the mani/turbo gasket? There are two "gaskets" there. One is a true gasket, but the other is a sealing ring that sits inside of the other gasket on the steps in the mani and turbine (you can see the step in the turbine housing in your pictures). They are supposed to be two pieces. Is that what you meant, or was one of those two components broken?

Are you certain that the smoke is from coolant or from oil? Knowing it's one or the other would be useful.

And it looks like the PO didn't ever change the oil. That head is pretty nasty inside.

Another tidbit of info is that one of the studs (or maybe two) that hold the mani to the head thread into oil galleys in the head. If they aren't tight, oil pressure will squirt oil out of the threads of the studs. Maybe it did that and the leak found its way into the exhaust manifold. If that's the case, you'd probably only see oil in one or two runners, but nothing in the others or in the exhaust ports on the head. I'm pretty sure that on the 2g motors, it'd leak into the #4 exhaust port (farthest from timing belt), but it might be between #3 and #4. But if there's no oil anywhere in the mani, I'd say the turbo is shot; there's just nowhere else for that oil to come from but the turbo.

As for the delayed smoking, it might be that there was a bunch of oil in the exhaust, and it doesn't start to burn off until it gets hot enough.

So first thing is to check for oil in the exhaust mani. If it's just soot, tear into the hotside of that turbo. I'm not sure if that's a 14b or 16g or something else, but if it's not too far gone, you could rebuild it. Or if you're looking to upgrade, this might be your chance.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Sounds like some serious valve seal issues to me, that and you might want to clean your intercooler/pipes. its weird that its dry in the head but wet in the turbo... does it smoke under boost?

Once it get's some heat in it, it smokes constantly.

The manifold is clean inside, I ran my finger in there and it wasn't messy like the exhaust. However the manifold to turbo mating surface was all oiled up.

The gasket that was separated was the exhaust gasket, between the head and manifold. Also, all those nut's holding it on were finger tight.

I checked the turbo for shaft play on the outlet side, and came up empty handed, seemed good to me, but I'll tear it off there tomarrow (it's cold out there right now, ) and report back with my finding's.

I searched and didn't really find any reports of bad turbos, with these symptoms, but it would seem the most logical thing to me too, the entire intake side of the motor is clean. This car has been ridin hard and put away wet for a long time though, so anything is possible.

BTW the oil comment is probably spot on, it's black as night, and seems a little thick too.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Update with pics of my turbo, it has the same type of soot as the exaust port? So I have no idea where all the smoke was coming from. Going to tear apart shortly and see what lies inside.

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[kenamond]

All I can figure is that all of that crap just got splattered on the outside of the turbo, but I don't know how it got on the inside of the turbine housing inlet. I'm stumped at the moment.

 

[Defiant]

Good god, does that motor have any seals left that don't leak?

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Good god, does that motor have any seals left that don't leak?

It didn't have any gasket's until I got to the turbo and manifold . Yeah, that's my current course of action. Get it down to the block and see what's going on in there.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Don't ever let anyone tell you you have to remove the cover and belt and all that crap to pull a DSM head, I got tired of waiting for my jack back, and my Benchmade made real short work of that belt, .

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IN this pic you can see the oil passage I think caused all the trouble, it's a manifold stud, but it passes into this passage, and I don't think it was sealed properly.

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