1g Turbo.

[project1g]

I've heard its all good to put the stock turbo on an NT motor but my next question is since the NT motor has higher compression can't I just lower the compression and do some of the same turbo upgrades as some of the GS-Ts that I see running around? In my head it kind of makes since and I want some clarification

 

[timloomis]

Yea, the n/t's have 9:1 and the turbo's have 7.8:1. Compression really isnt the problem, it's that the n/a pistons are weaker compared to the turbo ones. There's not as much material from the top of the piston to the first ring. They just cant take knock/high boost. You can just put some turbo pistons in there, but you might as well rebuild the whole thing then since you'll have it all aprt.

 

[whiteythepimp]

But there's difference's from what I understand in the block itself between the n/a and turbo.. Example the oil squirters... I would say check some more threads on this site because there's plenty about this..

 

[big_d]

Rods and crank are the same as the turbo models, the pistons and the cams are the two major differences in the two..There are plenty of high hp guys out there running n/t blocks, the usefulness of oil squirters has been questioned...big_d

 

[xtreme-elements]

pistons are different in the n/t motor.. you can turbo a n/t motor by changing the pistons pretty much.. there are no oil squirters in a n/t either.. it is said to be better without the squirters because they come apart under high boost..

 

[supercarbuilder]

like big_d said, there are different cams in the n/t. You might want to look into getting a pair of turbo cams. I'm not sure what the specific differences are but it may be well worth the while. I'm looking into getting a n/t so I'm also curious on all the exact differences.

 

[kronus]

Differences in n/t longblocks and turbo longblocks are the pistons, cams, and squirters. There are TWO problems with running n/t pistons in forced induction applications.

1. The ring lands on n/t pistons are not designed to withstand any type of abuse under boost (i.e. detonation.)
2. Because the compression is bumped to 9:1, tuning becomes that much more critical; add this to the weak ring lands, and any mistakes in tuning and good bye pistons.

So whoever told you it was 'all good' to slap on a 14b to the n/t motor was not giving you all the information you needed. There's no way to 'lower' the compression without installing different pistons. If you're just looking to turbo your motor, I would suggest running 2g turbo pistons. Designed for boost as well as a slightly higher compression than 1g pistons.

I would also look at turbo cams, because the n/t cams will prove to be a major restriction.

Now, as far as squirters are concerned, some say they're not necessary and the oil is needed in other locations more, and some say that they aid in longevity. You can decide that for yourself.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/140021-1gnt-turbo-oil-squirter-question.html

 

[erald01]

Differences in n/t longblocks and turbo longblocks are the pistons, cams, and squirters. There are TWO problems with running n/t pistons in forced induction applications.

1. The ring lands on n/t pistons are not designed to withstand any type of abuse under boost (i.e. detonation.)
2. Because the compression is bumped to 9:1, tuning becomes that much more critical; add this to the weak ring lands, and any mistakes in tuning and good bye pistons.

So whoever told you it was 'all good' to slap on a 14b to the n/t motor was not giving you all the information you needed. There's no way to 'lower' the compression without installing different pistons. If you're just looking to turbo your motor, I would suggest running 2g turbo pistons. Designed for boost as well as a slightly higher compression than 1g pistons.

I would also look at turbo cams, because the n/t cams will prove to be a major restriction.

Now, as far as squirters are concerned, some say they're not necessary and the oil is needed in other locations more, and some say that they aid in longevity. You can decide that for yourself.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/140021-1gnt-turbo-oil-squirter-question.html

It will defenitly be a good idea to get the 2g pistons, but to lower the compression you can also put a thicker head gasket.

 

[germanlookk72]

might want to look at the whole picture as well. fuel upgrades,ecu,drivetrain. a n\t car was not built with boost in mind. but def can be done.

 

[allwheelTSI]

I'll add, that to the best of my knowledge there really is'nt that much difference in the cams. 91-94T had .011" more lift on the exhaust side than the 90T and 90-94NT.

 

[kronus]

It will defenitly be a good idea to get the 2g pistons, but to lower the compression you can also put a thicker head gasket.

True, I overlooked that, however while lowering compression slightly, you'll still be running pistons that are not designed for boost.

 

[GVR4592]

The N/T pistons are a lot stronger than most people seem to think. The biggest factor is all of the idiots that throw this stuff together, have no clue what they're doing. My cousin and I did this to his car and we had really good results. I can't remember all of the details of the setup, but we ended up running somewhere around 18-20 psi for almost a year with a bone stock 1g N/T engine, and we didn't have any issues until the balance shaft bearing let go.

 

[big_d]

I agree ^^^^ I did it right and I have had nothing but good results...I have maybe $800 in my turbo kit on my n/t running stock n/t internals and have no regrets...I just need to wire up my s-afc so im not so rich w/ the 450's at low boost ...big_d

 

[project1g]

The N/T pistons are a lot stronger than most people seem to think. The biggest factor is all of the idiots that throw this stuff together, have no clue what they're doing. My cousin and I did this to his car and we had really good results. I can't remember all of the details of the setup, but we ended up running somewhere around 18-20 psi for almost a year with a bone stock 1g N/T engine, and we didn't have any issues until the balance shaft bearing let go.

No pistons or nothing? You just slapped a turbo on and maybe an ic and said bring it?
We got this big ice storm where I'm living got some pictures of my betsy covered in ice... Hhaha
Last question, would I need to do much E.C.U work because it was mentioned up there. If I would how much would I need to do?

 

[big_d]

I used this site for most of my reference
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/freestyle/turboconversion.html

Gives a pretty good step by step on how to do the install. As far as the ecu goes, you will have to buy a turbo ecu. The wiring isnt too bad, the biggest thing is wiring the injector resistor pack, the 7th wire on the mas, and the knock sensor. The mas and knock wires will have to be run back to the ecu to make it a "turbo harness"...big_d

 

[project1g]

Love it.
45 parts
66 directions
Bring it. Its a good thing I live by one of those you-pull-it junk yards.

 

[kronus]

The N/T pistons are a lot stronger than most people seem to think. The biggest factor is all of the idiots that throw this stuff together, have no clue what they're doing. My cousin and I did this to his car and we had really good results. I can't remember all of the details of the setup, but we ended up running somewhere around 18-20 psi for almost a year with a bone stock 1g N/T engine, and we didn't have any issues until the balance shaft bearing let go.

Hmmm. That's interesting. Do you have any more details you could give us? I'd like more information on tuning flexibility and what not. This could be very interesting.

 

[dsm-onster]

It will defenitly be a good idea to get the 2g pistons, but to lower the compression you can also put a thicker head gasket.

Not a good idea. You will alter the distance between the squish "surfaces" designed into the combustion chamber that thwarts preignition/detonation. You're swapping the devil for the witch.

 

[dareisstupid]

I don't know. I think I would rather just do it right the first time. It sucks to get a little taste of fastness and then have your car blow up. I didn't do it right and now i've got like 4800 in to mine and its still broke.

 

[kronus]

Not a good idea. You will alter the distance between the squish "surfaces" designed into the combustion chamber that thwarts preignition/detonation. You're swapping the devil for the witch.

If I remember correctly isn't that the 'quench' zone? I was gonna say something about that in my first post, but I wasn't sure if that actually applied here. I'm glad someone in the know brought it up though.

 

[project1g]

Can't remember who posted it it but their idea involved a link that told me the parts I would need and how to do it... I like that idea if it is as smooth as it is made out to be. If anybody has looked at that one does it seem to be the best way to go? I'm trying to put this turbo in before I sell my DSM, its gotta be gone by May and I figured I might as well throw a turbo in it and try to get as much out of it as possible. THanks for the ideas.

 

[GVR4592]

Hmmm. That's interesting. Do you have any more details you could give us? I'd like more information on tuning flexibility and what not. This could be very interesting.

Sure, boost the crap out of it and don't let it knock. It's pretty simple.

 

[dsm-onster]

Sure, boost the crap out of it and don't let it knock. It's pretty simple.

If I remember correctly isn't that the 'quench' zone? I was gonna say something about that in my first post, but I wasn't sure if that actually applied here. I'm glad someone in the know brought it up though.

Yea, the squish or quench zone is the same thing. 'Quench zone' sounds more sophisticated . . .

 

[project1g]

Quench makes me think of those old commercials
Quench your thirst. Wasn't that sprite??

 

[xtreme-elements]

from what i have read, the n/t block is better due to squirter failure and oil pressure drop. but just like these guys here have said, you will have to do some research and pick which is best for you. i will be doing a n/t to turbo conversion this winter. i am using a n/t block, stock internals, and putting an old 13b turbo on it with a shaved head and a .060 mls gasket. now im looking for a parts car cheap just so i can run it the track to see what happens..