Help please. On 2G 7 bolt timing not match up.

[02HtownSubie]

Hello all,

The car: 95 GSX with automatic tranny.

The problem: One day the harmonic crankshalf pulley broke into two pieces because the rubber between broke apart and of course it ripped up the buttom timing cover tossing pieces of it and broke the crank sensor as well. And perhaps making timing belt jump but unsure. I've try to start the car but the engine just turn without starting with no spark or fuel before I realize the pulley is broken. Please read below.

After taking off the timing cover and the broken crank pulley I've try to get the engine to TDC. Everytime when I got the crankshalf and the oil pump sprocket to match with the timing mark but the both Camshalf Sprockets doesn't match with the the timing mark. So I turn the crankshalf until the Camshalf Sprokets to match up but the Crank pulley and the Oil pump sprocket don't match up with the timing mark. What does this mean? Does it mean all the vales is bent? Should I trust the Camshalf sprocket or the Crankshalf pulley to get the engine to TDC? Since they don't match up. I have read and follow the timing belt replacement at vfaq. Please help with this matter I need to replace the timing belt because is it damaged.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

 

[synthetek]

You have to turn the crank 6 times before all the marks will line up again, so if you keep trying and turn the crank it should line up. Turn it and check after each turn and if still dosent line up after 6 turns than the belt may have jumped some teeth and be off.

 

[wret]

Yes. It sounds like you jumped some teeth. Time for a compression test.

 

[allwheelTSI]

How far out are your marks? I would recommend lining up your camshaft marks and then check the crank mark and see where it is, you can usually get away with moving the crank back and forth a little bit without the belt when the other marks are lined up.

 

[02HtownSubie]

Thank you all for responding. I've turn the crank for at least 50 times or so and still the camshalf and the crankshalf is not matching up with the timing marking. How could this be off so bad since the car was running fine until the harmonic pulley broke? I was wondering if I should trying to adjust the timing at all or just slap the new harmonic pulley and crank sensor in and start the car again. By the look of the timing not matching up I am a bit scared too. Any suggestion?

I heard compression testing from Ron. Should I left the timing as is while doing compression testing?

For the facts the camshalf and crankshalf is not matching up with the timing mark now. How can I tell if the engine is at TDC? Should I shine the flash light into the #1 spark plug hole and see if the #1 piston is to the top? I've been told this and not sure if this is correct method.

Off the subject for the record, I am also own 90 GSX with 6 bolts. Just incase folks in here think I am incompetent. I am not having problem with the timing, I've replace and set the timging on it in the past however this 7 bolts is my first time.

 

[synthetek]

Since you already have it apart you should just take the belt off (May be a good time to change the belt too if) & line everything back up with the marks and re-tension it, I would not try to put it back together & start it if things aren't lining up correctly. Its not much different on the 7 bolt than the 6 bolt, the marks are a little different, just look at the vfaq. to find TDC you can put a long screwdriver or stick in the spark plug hole and turn the crank until the screw driver reaches its highest point before starting to go back down.

 

[wret]

Since you already have it apart you should just take the belt off (May be a good time to change the belt too if) & line everything back up with the marks and re-tension it, I would not try to put it back together & start it if things aren't lining up correctly.

I agree. No point compression testing with the timing marks off. Line it up, then do the test.

 

[02HtownSubie]

I agree. No point compression testing with the timing marks off. Line it up, then do the test.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will remove the timing, and the balance shalf belts off tomorrow. But I got one question on lining up the camshalf sprockets.

1. 
   Once I line up the timing mark on the camshalf sprockets, does the dowel pins must be at 12 O'clock? left sprocket at the 3 o'clock and right sprocket at the 9 o'clock positions.
   I know on 6 bolts it specific say "dowel pins must be at 12 O'clock position however on 7 bolts I didn't see it stated.

 

[turbomoe]

okay.. i now exactaly what u mean. u just did my timing on my 7 bolt. okay the main thing allso is to get ## oil pump sprocket on the right turn what u want do is quckly turn it around 2 times and then point the mark at 12 oclock. if it rolls down to the left your good. if it turns to the right you got go another 360 and that will put it back in time. then you wanna make sure that ## crank and cams are right. to guide you better you should get your cams in the right place and then zip tie the belt to the cam gear on both at 10ock and the in intake one at 1oclock it will hold for u on its own wile you set the botom in gear. you wanna tension the belt on the back of the motor firt. so you wanna put the oil pump in time first. and soon and you get that you should get it around the crank and then teniosion the belt. but before you relase the tenisoner you shold go forward about a halft a turn on the rachet. and then put it back. i mean just move the rachet 1 in, then back. what that does its tensions the belt more and helps put it in place. but make sure u have the belt in some tension. so it doesnt jump.

once it looks good i mean on point you can tighten your tennsioner. make sure that both on the holes are directly under the bolt! then realese your pin.

you deff should use a new belt!!!! i highy recomend it.. i mean your already there just do it

if you need more help email me and ill give u my number

 

[wret]

Dowel pins up.

 

[02HtownSubie]

hello all,

can someone go to my profile and look at the picture of the crankshaft sprocket and tell me what is that brown piece next to crank bolt? I don't know how to post picture here so I posted as my profile picture. Once I took the crank bolt off I don't see the ring/washer, should there be one for 7 bolts? That brown piece is stuck there I have try to knock it off with the hammer and it is not moving a bit. Was wondering if that is a washer, should I knock it harder?

 

[synthetek]

You dont need to remove the crank sprocket on a 7bolt to change the balace shaft belt.

 

[02HtownSubie]

You dont need to remove the crank sprocket on a 7bolt to change the balace shaft belt.

I understand I do not need to remove the crank sprocket on the 7 bolts to change the balance shaft belt.

There's two reason why I wanted to remove. 1. To check and make sure the sprocket plate is not bent since my crankshaft sensor got destroyed, perhaps the crank sprocket plate is indeed bent? 2. To properly set the timing for the balance shaft, not unless I can use the timing mark as the timing belt mark.

 

[wret]

Go back to your post.
Click "Edit"
Click "Go Advanced"
Click "Upload/Edit Photos"
Click "Browse" to Browse to your photo
Click "Upload"
Click "Save Changes"

Delete the photo from your profile

 

[02HtownSubie]

I finally install the new timing belt and align them to its timing mark also with a new harmonic cranshaft pulley and the crankshaft sensor. I've notice the Crankshaft turn without much pressure with everything installed. Finally its time to start the car, only come to another disppointment. The engine turn like it was going to start, just freely turn. Took a spark plug out and insert the compression gauge in it, floor the gas pedal so the throttle will be fully open and crank..There's no compression from any of the cylinder. Any idea? I am thinking of all the vales bent. Even if all the valve bented, shouldn't I at least have some compression? My gauge needle didn't move at all.

So I tested out the gauge on my 1g GSX and it read fine.

 

[wret]

The compression test was only to confirm what was a near certainty anyway: your valves are damaged.

 

[02HtownSubie]

Well thank you all for helping me especially you Wret. I finally pull the head off today. As I open the valve cover I notice the intake valves is all open and the rocker arms just falling off. Pull the head and saw all 16 valves damaged. Now i guess I see why the compression reading is zero all accross.

Now I have few questions:

1. Is it OK to leave the pistons the way it is?
2. Can you re use the head bolts?
3. What type of head gasket should I get?
4. Do you think eBay head gasket kits OK?
5. Do you put gasket sealant on the head gasket?

 

[synthetek]

You should use new headbolts or ARP head studs, I would use a Cometic or Mitsubishi MLS head gasket, spray gasket with a lite coat of copper gasket spray, dont use any other kind of sealers like RTV or anything. Dont get a cheap head gasket unless you want to change it again soon, you should also have the head checked by a machine shop while its off.

 

[wret]

You should use new headbolts or ARP head studs, I would use a Cometic or Mitsubishi MLS head gasket, spray gasket with a lite coat of copper gasket spray, dont use any other kind of sealers like RTV or anything. Dont get a cheap head gasket unless you want to change it again soon, you should also have the head checked by a machine shop while its off.

Mostly agree except for the gasket spray, the pros and cons of which have been debated. Decide for yourself. Just make sure there are no sharp groves in the pistons.

 

[02HtownSubie]

Resolved, Admin please close this thread.