Turbo Shaft Question

[Puscifer]

Yesterday i was on my way out to the mainland from where i live at. about 3/4 mile down the road i look up at my rear mirror and see nothing but white smoke. so i coasted down the road a little and pulled into a vacant lot to check things out. Popped the hood and coolant was ALL over the place, so i found the culprut. one of the lines that run from the distribution block to up near the throttle body SPLIT. So, i figure " what cause that " -

Fixed that problem - Yay, lets get the baby home. Put 8 quarts of coolant back in it and still same problem. White smoke out of the exhaust, coolant spraying about 16 feet back. can't tell if oil is coming out or not because of the exhaust carbon buildup mixing in with the coolant.

So, of course now.. I'm either looking at the headgasket needing to be replaced, or the turbo. Now, with reading some article on here I'm still lost as to where to head next. I checked the shaft play (took off the intake to the turbo and tried to move the shaft by the fins - incase that's the wrong shaft please let me know) but it wouldn't move in and out, side to side on the other hand was MAYBE 1-2cm but i could hear it click when i moved it toward the bumper - Is that the housing it's hitting? if so i know that's a bad thing.

Thanks for all who post in advance. Just trying to get some heads up before i got ape Sh*T and tear the block down and turbo system off. Good racin'!

Also - engine never rose above normal operating tempature but before i shut the car down my oil pressure was below normal. i checked my dipstick, didn't see any water, looked in the valve colver via oil fill and didn't see any water up there (why'd it'd be there even w/ a blown HG is beyond me but *Shrug*)

 

[turboglenn]

definately sounds like coolant in the cylinders... one way to eliminate teh turbo would be to bypass the coolant line to it and see if it still does it..but the play and "clicking" sounds BAD to me..some side to side play is normal, it's the "in and out" that is a sign of a bad thrust bearing and a sure sign to get it rebuilt or replaced... if you have the tools, check compression and leakdown and see what you some up with..post the results and i'm sure one of us can help


BTW.. teh bypassing of coolant to the turbo is kind of a "ghetto check" but if it stops the white smoke you can be sure its teh turbo causing it....also are you sure it's not blue at all? the coolant in the turbo shouldn't be able to make it to the shaft area as it's seperated by cast metal, so the turbo should only be blowing blue smoke if that's the cause

 

[MrBoxx]

As many many people have found, when a turbo blows a seal or bearing, the smoke coming from the exhaust is USUALLY whitish/gray, and it is oil burning. Most synthetics burn white. Weird, and goes against the old rule of "white ALWAYS = water, blue ALWAYS = oil" but that's the way it goes now.

If you're moving the compressor wheel 1-2 centimeters, your bearings are more than likely shot. 1-2 millimeters is probably even pushing it. Try wiggling the compressor wheel back and forth, as well as spinning it when it's pushed as far to the side as you can. If it scrapes, it's time to replace the turbo. Check the condition of the fins to see that they're all straight and not damaged. Any chipping or curling on the outside where the compressor inlet is indicates that they may be scraping against it.

A compression test/leakdown test would be the next step.

 

[kenamond]

The guidance for shaft play (yes, you did it right) is that you want VERY minimal if any in/out play, but some side/side is okay if it doesn't hit the housing. You're going to have to figure out if it's hitting the housing. Also, the shaft should spin freely. And I'm sure you didn't have 1-2cm of play (that's impossible). I assume you meant mm.

I'm not to keen on bypassing the turbo coolant. Maybe it's okay, but I'd rather not let the center section overheat.

Are you sure the white smoke is coming out of the tailpipe, or could it just be flowing out of the engine bay under the car? If it's coming out of the tailpipe, I'd guess a blown head gasket.

So after you fixed the coolant line to the TB, are you saying it split that same line again? Or that you still blow white smoke but it's coming from somewhere else?

 

[Puscifer]

Thanks for the prompt responses everyone.. i was multi-tasking hardcore earlier and yes i meant MM not CM. It's almost a click noise i hear when i push it towards the bumper side, nothing on the other. 0 play to and from though which is the confusing part . the smoke could be a white-ish grey color, hard to tell because i was under floresent light but i walked through i and took a good wiff.. smelled like coolant to me (old battle wound of mine made me smell like a bad radiator for 2 months, can never forget that smell) - i do run full synthetic - I'm in Florida so the weather isn't TOO bad but i'll wait til tomorrow to check out pushing it to the side and trying to spin the compressor wheel and listen for scrubbing. The hose only busted the 1 time. Very ironic and never seen in happen. here lately i've been having my car buck a bit while boosting like a bad boost leak or something but i checked everything and it was clean and mint with the test. figured it was afr issue or something but it started doing it constantly when the big moment came.

Anywho tomorrow / monday is the big rip down. turbo system is coming off before i pull the head and check there but regardless both are getting replaced soon. I'm just soaking up as much info before hand so i know what i'm dealing with and you all are being more than helpful. i'll try to get a picture to you of the hose that split.


If anyone with the capabilities to upgrade my status, it would be more than helpful, i know a little more than the "newbie" area now so i would love access to post in the other forums. I'd be more than beneficial to the community, thanks.

 

[Puscifer]

Just some general information to be gathered for myself. I know the housing on my turbo is TDO5H which is supported by stock, 16g and big 16g (evo III 16g as well i believe) What would be a good turbo to put back on the beast?

Head gasket - I notice extremepsi.com is running a bundled deal w/ ARP head studs and a cometic gasket? are they any good or would anyone suggest something else?

Just looking for ideas and routes that more savvy dsmers would go with. i don't want to convert/adapt to much but i know if i leave the tdo5h area i'm going to have to do so but if it's not to much of a PITA to do, i'm all for it. Chip in please! Thank everyone for their time and cooperation to help a fellow DSMer.

 

[kenamond]

Just some general information to be gathered for myself. I know the housing on my turbo is TDO5H which is supported by stock, 16g and big 16g (evo III 16g as well i believe) What would be a good turbo to put back on the beast?

Head gasket - I notice extremepsi.com is running a bundled deal w/ ARP head studs and a cometic gasket? are they any good or would anyone suggest something else?

Just looking for ideas and routes that more savvy dsmers would go with. i don't want to convert/adapt to much but i know if i leave the tdo5h area i'm going to have to do so but if it's not to much of a PITA to do, i'm all for it. Chip in please! Thank everyone for their time and cooperation to help a fellow DSMer.

I'd suggest doing more tests before you pull the head. Compression (wet and dry) and leak-down test if the compression test shows problems.

If you find that you need to pull the head, I think ARP head studs and cometic gasket is what many folks have had good luck with. I'm no expert in that area (never had to pull the head), but I've read it too many times to count.

As for the turbo, if yours is still in good shape, you might want to stick with it. Otherwise, you'll have to decide on your goals before you can choose a turbo. Other things to consider are porting the mani/turbine housing/O2 housing while you have them off. Or possibly upgrading those parts. That will tie back into your turbo choice. For now, if you have to get the coolant leak problem fixed and it requires you to pull the head, you can do that and put the old turbo/mani/O2 housing back on for now and upgrade them later.

I recommend researching compression/leakdown testing first. Then ARP studs and cometic head gasket. Then turbo upgrades.

 

[Puscifer]

Much obliged, Ken and everyone else's 2c!

 

[Puscifer]

Come to find out it was my HG, the supporting ring around cylinder 4 actually seperated from the gasket and was laying on the top of the piston. Anyone else ever have this happen?

After looking at the head in depression of my stock internals I recently went ahead and ordered a set of Brian Crower 272/272 cams, springs and SS retainers w/ stock sized SS valve stems - etc..


As far as the bottom end goes. Do you think i should stick with the stock or start upgrading it as well? i know the previous valve train setup is only about stage 2-2.5 so I don't want any major conflicts with dumping a lot of money into the longblock and having to comb over it again.

All in all. What would you guys suggest I do? Just replace the replacement parts like the bearings and stuff in the block or go ahead and upgrade to 8.3 or 9.0 CR pistons and likeness rods. I just don't want to build a bottom end up and be to much for my new valvetrain. I've combed over some other peoples setups and whatnot but I haven't quite found the thread to pinpoint what I'm looking for. I don't intend to bore out, wish to stay standard for ease of not pulling the block and dealing with these backwoods machine shops that would probably incorrectly do the job. Thanks in Advance