AFC Neo in 420a n/a?

[kene04]

I've looked this up, and several say you can and several say you can't. Can someone hook up an AFC Neo in a 95 eclipse with the 420a? Does a turbo matter? Do I need a different o2 sensor? If I can make it work, do I just use the 95 ecu pinout diagram or do I have to do something different? Has anyone here tried it?

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

With an AFC, the O2 sensor is never involved. The AFC's do not work on the 420a's because the 420a's use a MAP sensor rather than a MAF sensor. Look into MegaSquirt if you have plans for turboing your car.

 

[Jeff_Ciesielski]

It wont match up to the 95 turbo pinout, completely different wiring harness. However, according to the manual I'm looking at, it is compatible with vehicles equipped with a map sensor which puts out a 0-5v linear signal, so in essence, it WILL work with a 420a eclipse, but you will need to acquire an ecu pinout and adjust the wiring accordingly. Best of luck.
--Jeff

also: are you trying to turbo your n/t eclipse?

edit #2: I also have to agree on the megasquirt. It would cost a lot less, and give you much better control over the engine.

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

Not to thread jack, but I did not know it could be used with MAP sensor-equipped cars. Thanks for the info.

 

[kene04]

It's already been ordered... bought without looking into it much... I have this link, where someone said something about it.
http://my.prostreetonline.com/t2060.htm -another forum
http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/95ECU.html - pinout

I'm not sure yet if I will turbo it, I may not for a while. I was wanting to use it after I do some engine building and fuel system work. Basically I got a bonus check, I've kept hearing about how great the Neo was, read some reviews on it in eclipses, ordered it, and then heard it doesn't work on the 420a. Is it worth using it to tune an N/A?

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

That depends on what mods you are planning on running.

 

[kene04]

I know I'm wanting walboro 255 lph fuel pump, injectors probably around 550 cc and an upgraded fuel rail. I'm putting a throttle body spacer on it with a ported and polished throttlebody and plenum. I've already got a pacesetter 4-2-1 header with a 3" exhaust, but I'm going to have it dualed out, cut at the two pipe mark and have it ran back that way, basic cold air intake. Other than that, I've got NGK plugs and an MSD coil pack. I'm going to rebuild the motor, but don't want massive power, I just want it to be pretty quick, fun to drive, and be dependable. Not a daily driver car, but I want to be able to drive it daily if one of my beaters tears up.

 

[Jeff_Ciesielski]

I know I'm wanting walboro 255 lph fuel pump, injectors probably around 550 cc and an upgraded fuel rail.

I've never owned a 420a car, but that fuel system seems excessive for something that isn't boosted. Honestly, for an NA car a 190 would be a better choice if you want to upgrade. It would still be overkill, but not nearly as bad as a 255. Also, you don't need 550cc injectors. Your car most likely runs rich from the factory, and the bolt on mods you have listed wouldn't warrant anything bigger unless you are 1. Increasing the compression ratio or 2. Increasing the displacement.

 

[kene04]

I will be boosting the compression ratio, maybe 11:1. The money's not ready yet for a full rebuild, so I haven't looked into it too much. I thought the 255 might be overkill, but I have a buddy with a 420a talon that the 190 couldn't hold up to and he's only about 250 horses. He'll probably be helping me with the build, since the only build I've done before was a chevy 350.

 

[TwoLiterLaser]

The 255 will be more than you need but since it is the same price as the 190, you might as well go ahead and buy the 255 and get a pressure regulator to keep the 255 in check. 550 injectors will be more than you need, I would say at most you could run some stock 450's. BUT before you go swapping in 450's you have to make sure the 420a's run the same type of injectors as the stock DSM's, I do not know.

As strictly opinion ONLY, I think you should just go ahead and build the engine for boost and turbo the beast. Get your hands on a MegaSquirt and piece together a turbo kit. With the correct tuning and self-restraint a 420a with a turbo can be just as reliable as a NA 420a.

 

[Locke]

No need for a separate regulator with a 255 on a 2gnt, the factory FPR does not overrun.

Unless you are boosting, you will be fine with the stock 2gnt injectors. The injector resistor pack is needed if you choose (for whatever reason) to use the turbo-car's injectors.

The only use for a S-AFC (Neo or not) on a 2gnt is to pull fuel from a rich idle caused by low vacuum when running large camshafts. They are otherwise useless to us.

A stock 2gnt bottom end can handle around 12psi of intercooled and properly fuelled boost. Most guys run a basic 12:1 FMU based fuel system, which is limited to about 8psi, but tends to net around 200 or so horsies to the wheels.

Read Tech Guide: 2G 420A Power Upgrades - DSMtuners

 

[kene04]

Well, the main reason I really wanted one is for monitoring. I've done some looking around though, and I can turbo the car and get the goals I really want for less money than getting 250 at the wheels NA. Engine will still need a rebuild just because the guy who used to have it nearly killed it.

 

[kene04]

what do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-9...ryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I'll have to get an intercooler and piping, and a blow off valve right? Never messed with turbos

 

[Locke]

Things that are not included with that kit, that you will still need would be:
-Oil return line
-Bulkhead or weld-in fitting for oil return
-Downpipe
-Intercooler
-IC piping
-BOV
-Boost gauge
-Fuel system (*must* choose one of the following)

For the fuel system, you have a few choices. Choose your flavour:
-12:1 FMU, stock injectors, 255lph fuel pump. (simple, basic, affordable, shouldn't go past 8psi boost)
-S-FMU, larger injectors up to ~440's, 190/255lph fuel pump.
-8 injector setup; Portfueler/035efi w/4 extra larger injectors of your choice, 1:1 AFPR, 190/255lph fuel pump.
-MegaSquirt, any size injectors, 1:1 AFPR, various sensors for the MS, 190/255lph fuel pump.

There are a few more fuel management options, but those are the most popular. Since you have a '95, anything in the above list that you would use a 1:1 AFPR with, you should probably disable or omit your factory FPR.

Most '95 2gnt's don't require the use of a FCD/ML, so I left it off the list. If you experience fuel cut, you would need one of those as well.

You should also consider something to monitor the motor, like a WBo2, or at least an EGT gauge.

Those cheap eBay turbo's have an iffy reputation for longevity, so after the install, begin putting money back for a quality turbo.

Without upgrading your internals, your motor should be able to tolerate about 8psi of intercooled boost. Prior to boosting, you should do a compression test to get a general idea of the condition of the motor, and get any current issues repaired now. Prior to the turbo install, drain the fuel tank of all your cheap fuel, and fill with 91 or the highest octane fuel readily available at your local fuel stations. You should always fill up with premium fuel when boosting a 2gnt.

I hope I didn't leave anything out, and I hope that helps you. Good luck then.

 

[kene04]

It comes with an oil line, do I need another one? Also, where can I find a down pipe? one for a 420a non turbo should fit right?

 

[Locke]

It comes with an oil feed line, you need to make an oil return line.

Treadstone is the only company I am aware of that makes a downpipe for turbo'd 2gnt's, and it is designed to fit with their manifold, turbo's, and wastegate's, so it may not work for that eBay setup. Most guys just have an exhaust shop make a downpipe.

 

[kene04]

Ok. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[justin2g]

the afc neo does work on the 420a ive installed it my self just get pinout of the ecu plug ins and look and the instruction man that come with the Neo piece of cake

 

[Locke]

the afc neo does work on the 420a ive installed it my self just get pinout of the ecu plug ins and look and the instruction man that come with the Neo piece of cake

It does wire up and function as designed - while not in boost - but the effectiveness is hardly worth the money. Unless you are compensating for low vacuum caused by large camshafts, these are nearly worthless to us unless.