Head gasket leaking, need advice

[SFRacingGST]

This winter I put an upgraded SBR IV head on. I used ARP head bolts and a cosmic metal head gasket. I used the molly lube, and torqued them in sequence to 30, then 60, then finished at 80. I fired up my car a few days ago, and I had a coolant leak and noticed that it was seeping from the head gasket. Then I have torqued to 85. Still seeping . So I called SBR and they said that they go 100 on every car. I put them up to 100 and it seemed to get smaller but still present. While it was idling looking for the leak again, I noticed that smoke/steam was coming from my oil catch can breather. After thinking about it, I remember it happening before.

I am stubborn, but am thinking that I might have to pull the head and try again with a new gasket. But what I don't get is that it is kind of fool proof to put the gasket on, it can only fit on way and it lines up on the alignment pins. My block is o-ringed and the surface was prepped with a light emery cloth in a circular motion and my head was just machined and built for me by slowboy (not ruling out a bad surface, but unlikely).

What are your opinions? Torque more? Pull head? Wait and see if it seats after a few heat cycles? I did smell the smoke coming from the RRE catch can and it DIDNT smell like antifreeze burning (sweet, kinda like maple syrup), if anything it smelt like gas, could be from running rich and the pcv is venting excess fuel vapors?




Please let me know, any advice is appreciated.

 

[olmytsi]

Do a comp test to begin.

 

[Cs4g63]

I would just replace the gasket again. That way while you have it all apart you can check all of your surfaces to make sure they are still good.

 

[MelloEclipse]

+1 on the compression and replacement...do a compression before and after just to check.

 

[dsm-onster]

When retorquing anytime, it is a good practice to loosten the fastener 1/8th to 1/4th turn, then retorque to the new spec. I would losten all of them opposite of torque pattern and the retirghten all of them w/ the torque pattern to your new 100 ft-lbs spec first then see what happens (start up, warm up, compression check).

A head gasket should never leak before or after heat cycling & retorquing. It CAN blow before heat cycling and retorquing, but only after some abuse. I like to heat cycle 5 times then properly retorque w/ the head cold.

Do a compression check. If there are low readings, then likely the gasket at the combustion chamber has been damaged (it can be from just idling when not correctly torqued) and you'll have to replace the gasket in short order anyway.

 

[SFRacingGST]

thanks for the input, i will try the re torquing when i get home... Whats the torque spec ARP recomends with out molly?? like 130 or something no??

 

[bling5tatus]

Yes, I would like this info as well, what are the torque specs for arp head studs.

 

[dsm-onster]

thanks for the input, i will try the re torquing when i get home... Whats the torque spec ARP recomends with out molly?? like 130 or something no??

Off the top of my head. I remember 110ft-lbs. I torque to 120 ft-lbs following the torque staging up to 110 then go one more stage to 120.

 

[SFRacingGST]

The reccomended torque seems to vary depending on who you ask. ARP only reccomends 75 with the 6 bolt head studs with molly lube, its 115 with out. I have been searching to see what other dsmers do. I have gotten responses from 86, 90, 100 with lube. Mine are at 105 now and i finally got the small seepage to stop. I torqued them when the head was cold to 105. So it is really up to you. I went to 80, then 85, then 90, then 100, then 105 to finally work. I would def use the molly lube

 

[perley03]

My block is o-ringed and the surface was prepped with a light emery cloth in a circular motion and my head was just machined and built for me by slowboy (not ruling out a bad surface, but unlikely).\QUOTE]

According to Cometic, you cannot run their MLS gasket with an o-ringed block. It won't seal, which is exactly is happening to you.

Can MLS head gaskets be used with motors setup with o-rings or receiver grooves around the cylinder bores?
No. MLS head gaskets require smooth, flat and true head and deck surfaces to seal. Most of the time with o-ring setups the wire and groove fall where our gasket’s combustion seal is located; therefore, the wire will hold the gasket and not allow proper compression while the receiver grooves allow combustion gases to escape.

http://www.cometic.com/faq.aspx#q3
What I would suggest is to look into other sealing options, maybe just running a complete o-ring setup with no gasket. I know alot of Cummins diesel engines running these setups on over 50psi of boost with zero failures, but it can get expensive. Also a copper headgasket with an o-ringed block would probally work. Do you know exactly where it is leaking (as to which coolant passage)?

 

[dsm-onster]

Good catch! I never ran a cometic. So I never thought of this!

There's your problem!

 

[Ho0ked]

Sounds like the rings are the problem, as per the above post from cometic.

Side note I recently installed a rebuilt head with ARP's and a Cometic MLS.

Torqued to 90, heat cycled then torqued to 110.

Zero leaks

The mitsu books, mitsu head gaskets say 85, the ARP's say 100-110.

I followed the ARP's there stronger for a reason