20g? Will it fit into my plans?

[eboy0]

Hey guys, I'm sorry if this is another "which turbo is best for me", I'm hoping it's not, because I've done most of my reading and researching.
So it seems as though the MHI 20g is looking quiet nicely, with my particular upgrades.. along with the turbo I'd be getting the 255 Walbro rewired and a set of sufficient injectors along with a FPR, seems like alot of upgrading, but I know down the line, I'd be upgrading the stuff anyways.
A buddy of mine is running a Big 16g in his evo, and is only putting down 320HP, AMS "down tuned".
I would really like to put down a bit more for the money i'm willing to spend.

Then there's the T-28 option, not as powerful, but cheapest method, like 500$ from FP w/ core exchange.

I'll be running FP2 cams, if that makes any difference in turbo selection.

I've only done research on a small variety of turbos, so i'm very open to suggestions.
Goal is to hit around 400HP on pump semi race gas.

 

[dsm-onster]

I strongly disbelieve that you can get 400hp out of a t28. . . between the 2, 20g is for you. You could look at the evo3 16g. BUT!!! it runs out of efficiency at high enough boost to get you 400hp on a 2.0L. I can be done so ask yourself what kind of tuner you are. The 20g is still effcient at 30 psi. . .

 

[eboy0]

I strongly disbelieve that you can get 400hp out of a t28. . . between the 2, 20g is for you. You could look at the evo3 16g. BUT!!! it runs out of efficiency at high enough boost to get you 400hp on a 2.0L. I can be done so ask yourself what kind of tuner you are. The 20g is still effcient at 30 psi. . .

The t28 I know, I was just thinking it'd be a good upgrade... but definitely won't get me to where I want to be.
Are there any other turbo out there that will surpass the 20g, in terms of lag and spooling? A couple of threads I read, the 20g takes a while to spool...
What is this 60-1 I read about?

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

Roman, you can call these shops like Fp and tell em what you want and they will build the turbo for you...different wheel sizes, housings ports stuff like that. Also a rewired 190 should suffice.

 

[eboy0]

Roman, you can call these shops like Fp and tell em what you want and they will build the turbo for you...different wheel sizes, housings ports stuff like that. Also a rewired 190 should suffice.

True, but wouldn't a custom job like that cost me alot more than I can afford, which is like 800-1000$

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

True, but wouldn't a custom job like that cost me alot more than I can afford, which is like 800-1000$

Not necessiraly, Im sure they would be willing to work with you on everything.

 

[dsm-onster]

Listen to EclipseTrbo420A. You can even pm the vendors these questions from this forum .

The t28 I know, I was just thinking it'd be a good upgrade... but definitely won't get me to where I want to be.
Are there any other turbo out there that will surpass the 20g, in terms of lag and spooling? A couple of threads I read, the 20g takes a while to spool...
What is this 60-1 I read about?

To answer your questions,

The td05h 20g has the same turbine and turbine housing as the tdo5h 18g, evo3 16g, big 16g, small 16g. Other than the rotational mass of the compressor wheel, the spool characteristics are the same. It's been my experience that compressor rotational mass had a less significant change in spool characteristics, then turbine a/r and wheel. Especially for the 16g to 20g compressor range. I.E., I upgraded from a small 16g to a td05h 18g and my spool time was about 200 rpm different. Going from a 14b to a small 16g will be more noticable as the 14b has a small a/r turbine housing since, the turbine a/r is different between the 14b and 16g

The TD06H 20g is laggier than the small16g thats for sure but if you want performance in the 20g range that is the price you have to pay (you can stroke or run nitrous if it's TOO annoying. spool under 3700 rpms is NOT that bad. The 60-1 w/ an sort of turbine that will flow enough for it will see full boost by 4500 rpms give or take the hotside options available to you.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

td06 20g. done

don't get the 60-1. if you want to go that size, get a 30r

 

[dsm-onster]

a 60-1 w/ a normally used hotside flows significantly more. and is FAR cheaper!WTF

 

[daren_p]

With FP2 cams I would probably want atleast a 20g as any turbo smaller then that will start to have boost drop off at the upper rpms as it won't be able to keep up to the cams. This will push the turbo even further away from its peak effiency if you run a descent amount of boost, making more heat which is never a good thing. 20g is very proven & reliable, if I was going the 20g route I'd probably opt for the larger TD06 turbine wheel for max performance but this ofcourse adds to the price. Are there faster spooling turbos that will flow more? Sure there are a BB 50 trim or a GT3076 are 2 examples but they ofcourse come with a higher price tag.

 

[kspharris]

You could try a Holset HY35 or the HX35. Either will get you were you want just fine. I have both.

 

[EvolvingGST]

Can I make you step back a second.

The reason why I would like you to think about this is you haven't given us any real reason for a need for an upgrade. Why do you want the turbo for? 1/4 or dyno queen? Daily driver or drag car? Budget?

These are all things we need to know to give you a good answer. Its easy for me to tell you to go pick up a 20g, 50 trim, FPgreen, 3065 ect... ect... But you tell us the characteristics you want such as spool time ect ect we can help you better.

Since you mentioned a 20G I thought I would put more insight on what a 20G can do, normally a 20G is a low 11 second turbo and can run into 10s. It has been proven over and over again. There are 2 exhaust housings you can get with this turbo either a 5cm or a 6cm. Ofcourse the 5cm will have a quicker spool but less top end power, and the 6cm will have a larger top end and give more power but will spool a bit slower.

You will need atleast a 255high lph, 720+ injectors, DSMlink or a complete EMS, and a FPR.

Great choice to go with your cams and will use them to full capacity. And typically I have seen them dyno from 400whp-near500whp.

Its a great turbo for what we call the weekend warrior. So its inbetween of a street and track turbo. But the only problem with it is that you need race gas to get the most out of the turbo.

And just a FYI a e16 has been proven to have very good gains from 272s.

 

[SoonToBeDSM06]

Can I make you step back a second.

The reason why I would like you to think about this is you haven't given us any real reason for a need for an upgrade. Why do you want the turbo for? 1/4 or dyno queen? Daily driver or drag car? Budget?

These are all things we need to know to give you a good answer. Its easy for me to tell you to go pick up a 20g, 50 trim, FPgreen, 3065 ect... ect... But you tell us the characteristics you want such as spool time ect ect we can help you better.

Since you mentioned a 20G I thought I would put more insight on what a 20G can do, normally a 20G is a low 11 second turbo and can run into 10s. It has been proven over and over again. There are 2 exhaust housings you can get with this turbo either a 5cm or a 6cm. Ofcourse the 5cm will have a quicker spool but less top end power, and the 6cm will have a larger top end and give more power but will spool a bit slower.

You will need atleast a 255high lph, 720+ injectors, DSMlink or a complete EMS, and a FPR.

Great choice to go with your cams and will use them to full capacity. And typically I have seen them dyno from 400whp-near500whp.

Its a great turbo for what we call the weekend warrior. So its inbetween of a street and track turbo. But the only problem with it is that you need race gas to get the most out of the turbo.

And just a FYI a e16 has been proven to have very good gains from 272s.

The 20g has two different exhaust WHEEL choices. The 5h wheel, which is the same as the 16gs. And the 6h wheel which is the same as the exhaust wheels in the FP Green and FP Red turbos. I don't know if you can upgrade the exhaust wheel in the 20g since there are some places that make you get a new banjo bolt which means a new turbo housing itself. I have a 20g with the 5h wheel and its going to get rebuilt but it spooled up fairly quick compared to a buddies 6h wheel. With the 5h wheel you can use a regular 7cm exhaust housing but with the 6h wheel you have to use the 8cm housing or have somebody machine the 7cm housing to fit the larger wheel.

 

[EvolvingGST]

The 20g has two different exhaust WHEEL choices. The 5h wheel, which is the same as the 16gs. And the 6h wheel which is the same as the exhaust wheels in the FP Green and FP Red turbos. I don't know if you can upgrade the exhaust wheel in the 20g since there are some places that make you get a new banjo bolt which means a new turbo housing itself. I have a 20g with the 5h wheel and its going to get rebuilt but it spooled up fairly quick compared to a buddies 6h wheel. With the 5h wheel you can use a regular 7cm exhaust housing but with the 6h wheel you have to use the 8cm housing or have somebody machine the 7cm housing to fit the larger wheel.

That was some knowledge I didnt know. Thanks. I mean I knew the exhaust housings had a different size, but I didnt know the wheel was completely different too. Thanks again . You might be able to help him with his choice since you have owned both.

I only have a friend who has changed them but no person experience. I use the pump gas king aka a dyno queen 50 trim

 

[dsm-onster]

BTW, 650 cc injeccotrs can get you 400hp... It's senseless to get 650 when 750-80s are the same price but when running at the limits of an safc or maft, one would do well to consider this. . . Again, no one knows what you want.

 

[eboy0]

Well like I said in the beginning, I really didn't want to turn this into a "what turbo for me thread", but its sort of turning into one.
I'd like to see around 400HP, this will be a daily driver, but I don't drive that far/much so that's not a problem really. Going to run her on the track a couple of times, hoping for high 11's... with current setup.
Something with a nice spool, somewhere from 3000-3800.
I've got around 800-1000$ to spend on a turbo, along with a kit to mount it.
Looking for an internally gated turbo, that runs off coolant lines, not oil cooled.

I know this is a pretty big range of turbos that will fit this category, but I only know the popular turbos, maybe you guys can tell me about the few that aren't so commonly used, I don't know.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

Whatever your choice ends up being, I strongly recommend investing in DSMlink at some point. Sure, you'd be able to tune for 400hp without it, but it is probably the best tuning method for the price that you'll find, and the best mod you'll ever invest in. With DSMlink you can compensate for big injectors (anything, really, 720 cc's - 1000 cc's) and not see any issues out of boost. Big injectors mean less injector duty cycle. Lower IDC's mean longer injector life. Sorry for rambling, but it's something to consider, and will make dealing with any turbo much easier.

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

Just use your afc and get a dsmchip from dsmchips.com, you can probably get as good as tune as dsmlink

 

[eboy0]

Whatever your choice ends up being, I strongly recommend investing in DSMlink at some point. Sure, you'd be able to tune for 400hp without it, but it is probably the best tuning method for the price that you'll find, and the best mod you'll ever invest in. With DSMlink you can compensate for big injectors (anything, really, 720 cc's - 1000 cc's) and not see any issues out of boost. Big injectors mean less injector duty cycle. Lower IDC's mean longer injector life. Sorry for rambling, but it's something to consider, and will make dealing with any turbo much easier.

Sorry I forgot, or maybe I mentioned it but I already have DSMLink.

Just use your afc and get a dsmchip from dsmchips.com, you can probably get as good as tune as dsmlink

As stated above.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

Well like I said in the beginning, I really didn't want to turn this into a "what turbo for me thread", but its sort of turning into one.
I'd like to see around 400HP, this will be a daily driver, but I don't drive that far/much so that's not a problem really. Going to run her on the track a couple of times, hoping for high 11's... with current setup.
Something with a nice spool, somewhere from 3000-3800.
I've got around 800-1000$ to spend on a turbo, along with a kit to mount it.
Looking for an internally gated turbo, that runs off coolant lines, not oil cooled.

I know this is a pretty big range of turbos that will fit this category, but I only know the popular turbos, maybe you guys can tell me about the few that aren't so commonly used, I don't know.

Thanks for the help guys.

do you mean oil cooled, not water cooled? because all turbos need oil for the bearings, not water

 

[eboy0]

do you mean oil cooled, not water cooled? because all turbos need oil for the bearings, not water

Hehe, I mean, I'd like a watercooled cooled turbo that will hook up to the coolant lines that run off my T25.

 

[kspharris]

You will have to go with the 20g if you want it to be as "bolt in" as possible. Other than that you could use the locations from your stock stuff and have plenty more options. You can pick up a HX35 for $300.00 bucks off ebay, water/oil lines for $150ish, manifold and have everything for under $800.00 bucks. Just an option. Good luck!!

 

[Warharan]

Get an FP3065 and call it a day.

 

[eboy0]

You will have to go with the 20g if you want it to be as "bolt in" as possible. Other than that you could use the locations from your stock stuff and have plenty more options. You can pick up a HX35 for $300.00 bucks off ebay, water/oil lines for $150ish, manifold and have everything for under $800.00 bucks. Just an option. Good luck!!

The Holset turbos looks interesting, why are these turbos overlooked? If the HX40 really flows 70lb/min, wouldn't this be an amazing turbo? In the threads i've read, this thing will do 30psi by 4k?
And this turbo is like 2 times cheaper than the 50 trims i've looked at.... can someone please explain what's wrong with these turbos for our application?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174026&highlight=hx40
Going by this thread, upgrades i've already have/ will have when I buy ANY turbo.
Would a HX35 be a much better upgrade over the 20g or 50 trim?

 

[dsm-onster]

It's not that they won't do wonderful. It's just that they arn't proven in the DSM community. WE get very sceptical and for no good reason. It took us almost a decade after the 1G was built for the average DSMer to use any other turbo other than an MHI. We would have rather clipped our turbine wheel than fly w/ another brand .

Holsets ahve done tremendous things for the turbo-ford community.

Low 12 second, stock crappy head w/ mild port work, stock ecu, stock injectors, stock JY block, bad traction, stock chassis and body turbo-ford w/ Holset HX35 (12.3 at 25 psi):

Four Banger

Their turbine housings and wheels are huge. and flow huge mass air. Therefore keep in mind that you'll be somewhat restricted in what you can get, since housings AND wheels affect spool time. But it's not difficult to get a great, very affordable Holset, IMHO. You'll need a turbo that has a turbine wheel that will be manageable (not too slow spool) in a custom housing. BEP housings seam to work great w/ holset turbines.