Max injector with AFC NEO?

[SvarO]

Hi,

i wanna know what the max injector i can tune with the new AFC Neo, the new 16 points over the 12 in old AFC II, means that i can tune higher injector size?

AFC II= 650cc
NEO = ????

i will appreciated the answer.

 

[Quasimondo]

The maximum recommended injector size is still 650cc.

 

[SvarO]

umm i c... and what means the extra 4 points ?? (16 total)

 

[DSM_NOOBIE]

umm i c... and what means the extra 4 points ?? (16 total)

Your precision of tune changes...so say you have 12 points with an rpm range of 7000. 7000/12= 583
7000/16=437

This means u can make fuel adjustments at a more closer rpm range.

 

[JayRolla]

Do you have the neo. If you dont and are buying a SAFC then dont get the neo. SAFC2 is all you need.

 

[volleykinginnc]

I just got in a NEO as the sent it in error instead of the SAFC II I ordered. I also bought 680 injectors as I am putting in an EVO III. Does this mean I won't be able to tune with it? SHould I order the 550's?? Now I'm worried.

 

[mnetwork]

I have PTE 680cc's and an S-AFC2 and I'm running great.. 318 at the wheels. My injectors are the limit.. going any higher and you'll have issues..

 

[THE REAL DEAL]

Do you have the neo. If you dont and are buying a SAFC then dont get the neo. SAFC2 is all you need.

ok so is there any disadvantage to using the neo rather than a safc II? i'm gonna order one on ebay next month and there's only a 25 dollar difference. if there's no disadvantage to using a neo, i'll pay an extra 25 for a color screen and a more sleek design.

 

[mnetwork]

As far as I know new just adds vtech control and those extra points. If it's only that much more for the neo, go for it..

 

[96gsdsm]

Just for clarification... The tuning points are for the fuel curve... you can tune out fuel just fine and dandy with an SAFC or a NEO... the problem is that the computer sees less air then it really is flowing (because SAFC's & NEO's use the MAF wire for manipulation) so in turn our ECU's add loads of timing... which in turn causes knock... there's really no easy way to tune this out using a piggyback style fuel controller because you can't adjust timing.

The only exception to this rule would be a chipped ECU which does alter the timing curves to the airflow that you computer would be seeing with larger injectors.

Oh.. and a neo is just basically a fancy SAFC... with more bells and some whistles here and there... a regular plain old SAFC is perfectly sufficiant to tune with, and has been used for years in the DSM world.

If your going to be needing injectors that flow 650cc's (or 680's which are close enough) ... go with link, and learn how to use it properly. Or if your really on a budget get a socketed EPROM and get a chip burned.

If your really really on a budget and can't afford that... then you shouldn't be putting on HUGE injectors and making massive ammounts of power either, because just gas alone would kill you.

Hope that helps guys.

 

[SvarO]

thanks a lot.

 

[96gsdsm]

No prob.

 

[pooker]

I just got in a NEO as the sent it in error instead of the SAFC II I ordered. I also bought 680 injectors as I am putting in an EVO III. Does this mean I won't be able to tune with it? SHould I order the 550's?? Now I'm worried.

Don't let people veer you away I personally run this same setup in my car.. But I will say that if I had the money I would of went with link, my car was hard to tune with this setup, and after it was all said and done I probably could of bought link. But if you are set on the neo it can and will work.

 

[mnetwork]

Don't let people veer you away I personally run this same setup in my car.. But I will say that if I had the money I would of went with link, my car was hard to tune with this setup, and after it was all said and done I probably could of bought link. But if you are set on the neo it can and will work.

True..

 

[volleykinginnc]

Don't let people veer you away I personally run this same setup in my car.. But I will say that if I had the money I would of went with link, my car was hard to tune with this setup, and after it was all said and done I probably could of bought link. But if you are set on the neo it can and will work.

Just curious...why is it "hard" to tune right? I assume that it has a tendency to run rich with the larger injectors?? I also have the Walbro 255/Fuel Psi Reg so I thought it would be relatively easy. This is my first tuning attempt so forgive the basic questions. Also, I have seen several posters with similar setups saying that they run at 21-22 psi and others at 15-16. Assuming pump gas why would you want to run at a lower boost? Any idea what each PSI relates to HP?

 

[steve]

Just curious...why is it "hard" to tune right?

The fundemental problem with all AFC or AFC like devices is that they lie to the ECU about how much air the engine is using. This changes the ECU's idea of load. With larger injectors this can cause sigificant changes to where in the timing maps the ECU is, giving you more timing than you want.

Steve

 

[volleykinginnc]

Thanks Steve...I appreciate you helping a newb out. But I am still a little confused. I understand that the piggyback systems simplie lie to the ECU but if you are getting too much or too little timing then wouldn't it simply be a matter of "lying" differently and the ECU would adjust to where you want it? Does that make sense?

I hate being a noob.

 

[96gsdsm]

... the problem is that the computer sees less air then it really is flowing (because SAFC's & NEO's use the MAF wire for manipulation) so in turn our ECU's add loads of timing... which in turn causes knock... there's really no easy way to tune this out using a piggyback style fuel controller because you can't adjust timing.

Exactly what I said earlier... larger injectors throw off timing.

 

[96gsdsm]

Thanks Steve...I appreciate you helping a newb out. But I am still a little confused. I understand that the piggyback systems simplie lie to the ECU but if you are getting too much or too little timing then wouldn't it simply be a matter of "lying" differently and the ECU would adjust to where you want it? Does that make sense?

I hate being a noob.

It works like that to a certain extent with fuel trims... but not with timing. The Ecu is built for max power/fuel efficiency... so if it's seeing less air, it's going to add timing and vice versa.... Timing maps are more or less pre-determined... and fuel maps are constantly changing with altitude, temperture, etc. etc. ... the ECU does retard timing when it sees knock, but you want your timing to steadly advance... not rapidly decline.

 

[JayRolla]

Thats the good thing about running a 2g maf in a 1g. When you put the 2g maf in it leans you out bad. Then when you install 550's the timing is barely even changes. It also will make tuning 650's easier.

 

[96gsdsm]

Thats the good thing about running a 2g maf in a 1g. When you put the 2g maf in it leans you out bad. Then when you install 550's the timing is barely even changes. It also will make tuning 650's easier.

Yezzir... But you can only get a MAF so big... that's why people say don't go over 650's with a piggyback fuel controler... well... maby just a tad ... but say 750-780+cc's is going to be a PITA to tune.

Remember... the larger the injector... the harder it's going to be to dial it in.