What would be the easiest and a good fuel set up to support an evo316g?

[96gstdsm]

Ok i decided to pour some money into my car now. I think i am going to go ahead and upgrade to an evo316g turbo. My question here is what fuel setup would be best and easiest to do? I have zero experience with any turning. What fuel pump and injectors would be best? With all setups would it require tuning? Would i always need a afpr? It is only going to be a street car. No racing or anything like that so i am not going to try and be pushing like 400hp or anything crazy. Just want more pick up and top end from the t-25.
Let me know any ideas. Just pretty confused after reading everything here, so many different opinions.

--Ryan.

 

[turbodsm18]

A good fuel setup for the Evo III 16g would consist of a walboro 255 rewired pump or even a supra pump. With a 255 pump you will need to get a AFPR. You may also be able to get away with a walboro 190 pump without the AFPR but I have never tried it personally. I recomend an Aeromotive unit, I have had zero problems with mine. As far as injectors, Im going to run 680 cc injectors so I have room to grow when I need to. You can probably get away with 550's though.

You will need fuel control. If you want to spend the money, I highly recomend DSMLink, but if you dont have a eprom ecu or a labtop things can get expensive. There is tons of support on dsmlink forums and its an easy setup to tune on once you get used to it. If you want to go a cheaper route, I would highly consider a chipped ecu from DSMchips.com . These are a proven way of tuning but the only downside is that you cannot change you AFR and timing settings. As far as using an SAFC. Personally, I dont like the method they use of tuning. People do run them and they are a proven way, just not my taste.

Hope this can get you started.

-Kevin-

 

[nube90]

Probably the easiet fuel set-up would be a Walbro 190 with re-wire kit, with the 190 you don't need an AFPR, and a set of RC 550's, for a light street car nothing crazy. Just like stated above some tuning would be nice too but you dont have to have it.

 

[96gstdsm]

Probably the easiet fuel set-up would be a Walbro 190 with re-wire kit, with the 190 you don't need an AFPR, and a set of RC 550's, for a light street car nothing crazy.

Would that setup max out before reaching higher psi numbers? 550's would be sufficient for 20 or so psi? Would i still need a tuning device for that?

Also the dsm chips. If i get one of those do i need to change my ecu? or just plug the chip in? Would i need to do any other tuning with one of those chips? Or does that tune my engine up to my parts?

 

[nube90]

With that fuel set up you could run 20psi as for tuning at that high of boost levels its highly recomended that you have it tuned as it will run alot better, for example your car from the factory is only tuned for about 10psi for moderate driving raise that boost up to 20 and its not going to be at the highest potential.

 

[Splitpi]

850cc injectors, 255lph Fuel pump, FPR, rewired Fuel pump, WBO2 and DSMLink. Setup good for 400 hp at crank.

if you go with 190lph Fuel pump, get 750cc injectors, WBO2 and DSMLink and I would highly recommend rewiring the Fuel pump and consider an FPR as a 190 can overrun the stock FPR, its possible. 750cc's will allow you to max out in the neighborhood of 360 hp theoretically (real world will be less of course, but it gives you an idea of the top boundry).

Math fun:

HP = ((Inj Size/10.5)*(4*Duty Cycle))/BSFC

Typically, duty cycle = 80% or .8 as MOST injector manufactors tend to rate their flow at 80% DC and BSFC = .5 to .7 for turbo cars, I prefer to use .63 and be conservative. So real world values will vary from the potential (along with other factors ofcourse)

Fuel pump lph to injector cc/min sustainability:

Injector size = Fuel pump size (lph)/(# of Injectors*0.06)

Example: 255/(4*0.06) = 1062.5 cc/min or that a 255 lph at max rating can provide enough fuel to feed 4 1000cc/min rated injectors.

 

[nube90]

He said he's looking for a street car not 400hp. If your not planning on racing or anything just a street car why are you worried about running 20psi?

 

[96gstdsm]

He said he's looking for a street car not 400hp. If your not planning on racing or anything just a street car why are you worried about running 20psi?

I just want to have a car that can get some real nice pull whenever i want. I just like to be able to have the power if i need it or want it. But i mean like something around 300 at the wheels i am sure would feel much faster than stock and something around what i am looking for.
i don't know if 20psi is too high for that or not, but just threw that number out there. If this turbo gives me the power i would like at 17 then i would only run it there. I just want to know what i would need to be safe.

 

[ndsti]

I currently have an evo3 and my setup is as follows:

Walbro 255 w/ aeromotive FPR
-6an lines
tubular exhaust manifold
650cc injectors
ECU + Piggyback Tuning
Wideband o2
Full 3" exhaust
etc.

If you want to know everything that I have installed just check my profile most of the stuff is listed thier.

Have any questions feel free!

 

[96gstdsm]

850cc injectors, 255lph Fuel pump, FPR, rewired Fuel pump, WBO2 and DSMLink. Setup good for 400 hp at crank.

if you go with 190lph Fuel pump, get 750cc injectors, WBO2 and DSMLink and I would highly recommend rewiring the Fuel pump and consider an FPR as a 190 can overrun the stock FPR, its possible. 750cc's will allow you to max out in the neighborhood of 360 hp theoretically (real world will be less of course, but it gives you an idea of the top boundry).

Math fun:

HP = ((Inj Size/10.5)*(4*Duty Cycle))/BSFC

Typically, duty cycle = 80% or .8 as MOST injector manufactors tend to rate their flow at 80% DC and BSFC = .5 to .7 for turbo cars, I prefer to use .63 and be conservative. So real world values will vary from the potential (along with other factors ofcourse)

Fuel pump lph to injector cc/min sustainability:

Injector size = Fuel pump size (lph)/(# of Injectors*0.06)

Example: 255/(4*0.06) = 1062.5 cc/min or that a 255 lph at max rating can provide enough fuel to feed 4 1000cc/min rated injectors.

So by these numbers then should a 190 pump be sufficient for like 550cc injectors? And if i don't plan to upgrade my turbo would that setup be ok for whatever boost i decide to safely run? If the 190 is not rewired would it be sufficient also?

 

[Splitpi]

I just want to have a car that can get some real nice pull whenever i want. I just like to be able to have the power if i need it or want it. But i mean like something around 300 at the wheels i am sure would feel much faster than stock and something around what i am looking for.
i don't know if 20psi is too high for that or not, but just threw that number out there. If this turbo gives me the power i would like at 17 then i would only run it there. I just want to know what i would need to be safe.

300 hp at the wheels from an EVO3 is not really streetable. EVO3's max out around 400-420HP or their abouts in their usable range of power (I believe slowboy has some charts on it) or roughtly 320 hp at the wheel assuming a 20% loss in the drivetrain and I can gaurantee those number's aren't using pump gas.

If 300 wheel hp is your go, consider a 50 or 57 trim style turbo which have a higher flow than the EVO3.

Obviously though, if I am incorrect someone please correct me.

 

[Splitpi]

So by these numbers then should a 190 pump be sufficient for like 550cc injectors? And if i don't plan to upgrade my turbo would that setup be ok for whatever boost i decide to safely run? If the 190 is not rewired would it be sufficient also?

According to an RRE flow chart a rewired 2G stocker fuel pump will handle 550cc's.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/fuelpumpflowrates.htm

Edit:

Sorry for the double post...

 

[nube90]

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G%20Tubular%20vs.%20Cast.JPG
On this graph there acheiving over 400hp at the wheels now thats not on pump gas and the supporting mods are probably crazy.

 

[96gstdsm]

300 hp at the wheels from an EVO3 is not really streetable. EVO3's max out around 400-420HP or their abouts in their usable range of power (I believe slowboy has some charts on it) or roughtly 320 hp at the wheel assuming a 20% loss in the drivetrain and I can gaurantee those number's aren't using pump gas.

If 300 wheel hp is your go, consider a 50 or 57 trim style turbo which have a higher flow than the EVO3.

Obviously though, if I am incorrect someone please correct me.

Ok i thought when i saw people listing that they had about 300 hp easily that it was at the crank. What is the stock hp at the wheels with eclipses? I guess then like something around 300 or so at the crank then is what i would be looking for.

 

[My91TalonTSi]

Would that setup max out before reaching higher psi numbers? 550's would be sufficient for 20 or so psi? Would i still need a tuning device for that?

Also the dsm chips. If i get one of those do i need to change my ecu? or just plug the chip in? Would i need to do any other tuning with one of those chips? Or does that tune my engine up to my parts?

Every car is going to be slightly different, but you may be able to get away without a tuning device and running 20psi with a chip. You should still monitor knock though and you can do that with the stock boost gauge when you run a chipped ecu.

Do you have an eeprom ECU? If you do, you could get it socketed and chipped for 650's. Also, get a 190lph fuel pump. This way you won't have to get an AFPR.

I think you'll notice a NICE difference compared to your t25 and it's with out getting too crazy. Keep in mind, if you have the stock intercooler, you might run into heat soak issues making multiple pulls running 20+ psi.

 

[96gstdsm]

According to an RRE flow chart a rewired 2G stocker fuel pump will handle 550cc's.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/fuelpumpflowrates.htm

Edit:

Sorry for the double post...

Will that be able to support like 18-20 psi? And is that going to be at near 100% duty cycle? If that would be sufficient for this setup then that sounds like the easiest, but would it be safe and not running my system to it's complete max?

 

[nube90]

Well stock hp for Turbo eclipse is around 210 at the crank for 2g cars and well thats probably around 170WHP or so, 300 hp would not be hard to achieve with an EVO3.

 

[Splitpi]

Will that be able to support like 18-20 psi? And is that going to be at near 100% duty cycle? If that would be sufficient for this setup then that sounds like the easiest, but would it be safe and not running my system to it's complete max?

I don't want to sound mean, but you are asking the question incorrectly. What you need to be asking is how much HP you want (at the crank) and at what psi so that you can look at the Turbo flow map and correlate the turbo flow in lb/min (what actually makes the HP) to find where in the turbo's efficiency that will put you (i.e. whether your just blowing hot air or actually making efficient power).

Also, nearly all injectors save for a few quote the Injector size at 80% duty cycle. So at 80% duty cycle on 550 cc's, your looking at somewhere about 260 hp at the crank (and this will change ofcourse depending on the BSFC, which I generalized to .63) theoretically.

Honestly though in my oppinion, spend the money on an EPROM 95 ECU, get DSMLink, buy 850 cc injectors, rewire the stock Fuel Pump and just be done with it. You can upgrade the fuel pump and FPR later as you go for more power. Do it once and be done with it. The cost is pretty small between 550's and 850's in difference.

 

[96gstdsm]

I don't want to sound mean, but you are asking the question incorrectly. What you need to be asking is how much HP you want (at the crank) and at what psi so that you can look at the Turbo flow map and correlate the turbo flow in lb/min (what actually makes the HP) to find where in the turbo's efficiency that will put you (i.e. whether your just blowing hot air or actually making efficient power).

Also, nearly all injectors save for a few quote the Injector size at 80% duty cycle. So at 80% duty cycle on 550 cc's, your looking at somewhere about 260 hp at the crank (and this will change ofcourse depending on the BSFC, which I generalized to .63) theoretically.

Honestly though in my oppinion, spend the money on an EPROM 95 ECU, get DSMLink, buy 850 cc injectors, rewire the stock Fuel Pump and just be done with it. You can upgrade the fuel pump and FPR later as you go for more power. Do it once and be done with it. The cost is pretty small between 550's and 850's in difference.

Ok as i am new to this car and have not done much or any modding of cars before, i don't really know how to tell what psi and all i want. Would i be able to get 300 hp or more at the crank with 650cc injectors(those work with an safc?) and a 190 fuel pump?
I would love to buy all the best and all, but i am not going to have money for dsmlink and to me it seems too complicated. I am sure i could learn but i don't have much time and i have zero tuning knowledge.
So would an afc, 190 fuel pump rewired or stock wiring, 650 cc injectors be sufficient for a 300 hp goal at the crank? Would it leave any room for more power with the same setup?
Sorry for probably some dumb questions, but just get really confused when it comes to fuel systems and setups!

 

[Splitpi]

Read this link about what I wrote on how to figure out turbo maps:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251111&highlight=Efficiency

 

[HondaStylez]

A good fuel setup for the Evo III 16g would consist of a walboro 255 rewired pump or even a supra pump. With a 255 pump you will need to get a AFPR. You may also be able to get away with a walboro 190 pump without the AFPR but I have never tried it personally. I recomend an Aeromotive unit, I have had zero problems with mine. As far as injectors, Im going to run 680 cc injectors so I have room to grow when I need to. You can probably get away with 550's though.

This one was answered on the first post.


Whoever said 850's, are you joking dude? Do you guys even think before you reply?

 

[StR8sPo0Ln]

I currently have an evo3 and my setup is as follows:

Walbro 255 w/ aeromotive FPR
-6an lines
tubular exhaust manifold
650cc injectors
ECU + Piggyback Tuning
Wideband o2
Full 3" exhaust
etc.

If you want to know everything that I have installed just check my profile most of the stuff is listed thier.

Have any questions feel free!

I have the same similar setup, walpro 255 high pressure, denso 550cc injectors, and believe it or not but this works great a megan racing FPR. But i went the cheap route for the FPR i would buy an aeromotive if i had the money at the time. Apexi SAFC and also my full 3" turbo back exhaust and i have no problem tuning it.

 

[silver bullit]

Is your car auto or stick? So i can get an idea of what you cars stock fuel injectors are.

If all you want is a lil more ump, then go with the 2g install kit and a 16g turbo or to save some money just put a 14b on it cause a 14b pulls different than a t-25 and 14b, 16g(all), and 18g, 20g all share the same oil and coolant line pickup points, so if you want more ump later you can swap just the turbo out. A boost controller set at 10-14 and if your car has stock 390 injectors for autos or 450 for manuals i suggest that you upgrade to 550 injectors, and be sure to get other supporting mod afpr, maybe a 190 or and rewire the fuel pump, etc...

 

[96gstdsm]

Is your car auto or stick? So i can get an idea of what you cars stock fuel injectors are.

If all you want is a lil more ump, then go with the 2g install kit and a 16g turbo or to save some money just put a 14b on it cause a 14b pulls different than a t-25 and 14b, 16g(all), and 18g, 20g all share the same oil and coolant line pickup points, so if you want more ump later you can swap just the turbo out. A boost controller set at 10-14 and if your car has stock 390 injectors for autos or 450 for manuals i suggest that you upgrade to 550 injectors, and be sure to get other supporting mod afpr, maybe a 190 or and rewire the fuel pump, etc...

My car is stick so i have the 450 injectors. I think i am looking for like 300 to 350 hp at the crank tops. My main question now is, will a 190 fuel pump and 650cc injectors be able to take me there with an evo316g turbo? i would be happy with a nice reliable 300 at the crank. Would i need to rewire the pump for sure? And being a 190 i wouldn't need an afpr correct? So would i just need the pump, injectors and an afc? Also the safc will be able to handle 650 injectors right? Is it only larger ones that it wont work with?

 

[silver bullit]

My car is stick so i have the 450 injectors. I think i am looking for like 300 to 350 hp at the crank tops. My main question now is, will a 190 fuel pump and 650cc injectors be able to take me there with an evo316g turbo? i would be happy with a nice reliable 300 at the crank. Would i need to rewire the pump for sure? And being a 190 i wouldn't need an afpr correct? So would i just need the pump, injectors and an afc? Also the safc will be able to handle 650 injectors right? Is it only larger ones that it wont work with?

Yeah it should get you close or right at it. I would rewire the pump and get the 190 you should get an apfr cause it can over run the fpr but it would be best to have all the supporting mods that way the car is reliable. I believe it was the 550? but am not sure i would look into the 650 with the safc to be 100% sure, but i would much rathier have the car reliable than running on 90%+ injector cycle, nothing to help the cars reliability, cause then your asking for a problem, so do it right the first time. Make sure you get a boost gauge the stock one is not accurate.