turbo advice

[dandanthedsmman]

alright thus far i have
3inch turboback
apex fmic 18(or some off brand thats very similar and rated at 400hp not sure yet)
autometercarbon fiber boost gauge
turbo xs mbcontroller
ssqv
intake
getting intake/upper intercooler piping this weekend

a friend of mine has a gsx that dynoes at over 500...he has a super 20g that hits like nitrous when it spools (at about 4 gran) but he says it's more for the track and is not really a dailydriver/street car (and he has also put a lot of money into his car...i mean a ton!)

i have a gstspyder and some people have recommended the evo 3 16g but the quick spool and fwd can work against me and traction will become an issue...

my goal with this dsm is to hit 400hp, and i'd really like to keep it as a daily driver...i've heard good things about the 18 g, does anyone have any particular recommendations on turbos that just dominate?
my uncle has driven supra's all his life and tries 2 get the point across that ball bearing turbo's are superior to others....is there like an 18g ball bearing turbo>? idk...im totally lost

what turbo should i get and what supporting mods would i have 2 get...like specific injectors waste gate and fuel pumps

in terms of finance, i have about 1500 bux to work with

thanks very much!
-Dan

 

[GloriousDSM]

do some reasearch on the 50 trim, that will get youto your hp goals with some good tuning and cams

 

[pooker]

Do a 50 trim if you have a fwd, its like daylight and dark compared to 20g's. Plus the 20g is just not worth if in my opinion for the money you spend for a good one.

 

[dandanthedsmman]

alright fair enough

does anyone have any particular "50" trim in mind? i don't know much about the different makes...

any links would be much appreciated

 

[Xeiros]

Adding a LSD would help with your traction issues as well.

 

[Cs4g63]

Get the Prothane motor mounts. It helps out alot in getting the power to the ground in a fwd.

 

[brute]

All "50-trims" are the same. The only difference with types is different manufacturers and housings. The "50-trim" is probably the street king, followed by the Evo III. The bad thing about the Evo III is that it will be extremely hard to make your goals. The good thing is the price and simplicity of installation. These two turbos are pretty much opposites. One costs more, but offers ease in achieving your goals; the other is very cheap, but will be hard to make your goals on.

They do not make any type of ballbearing MHI turbo. So 14b's, 16g's, 18g's, and 20g's are out of the question for ballbearing. But the first 3 of those I stated spool so quickly that ballbearing isn't really needed. They do, however, make ballbearing "50-trims." The downside to these, is that they are over $1000.

 

[BISHILVR]

The evo3 that I have on my one fwd works great, and it does'nt have any "hit" to speak of, so with poly motor mounts and the non hit from the turbo the traction is really not much of a problem, I think the 50-trim would be a MAJOR traction problem for you even though it is a laggy turbo compared to the evo3. The evo3 has made over 400 hp before, but alot of guys are seeing 350-380hp on it with a basic tune and supporting mods. I just installed a 50-trim a few months ago and was'nt all that exited about it, especially on a daily driver, it just is'nt a fun turbo. Being that you have a gst spyder I would think that your more into a daily driver than a track only car, and the evo3 would be a good choice for little money and a 12 month warranty you cant go wrong. The 50-trim will meet your hp goal also, but then again so will a GT-35 etc. Just about anything over a 14b can meet your goals with tuning (and its even been done on a 14b).

 

[daren_p]

Well with basically any turbo upgrade you going to need to upgrade your fuel system (pump, injectors & something to control/log it). Do you want 400 wheel hp or crank? I ran the evoIII and if your looking for 400 whp on pump, then I would pass on it. Yes its been done but is defently not the norm & you will need all the bolt on's to get you there. Now 350-380 crank hp in the evoIII is a reasonable goal & can be done without too much hassle. It will hit harder then a 50 trim and taper off in the top end, traction isn't too bad in a fwd, it was probably better then the t25 since mine spooled at like 2400 when it was ported. I have an LSD now so traction isn't to much of an issue.

For your goals I would recommend a 50 trim as well, probably a BB version if your mainly a DD. Check out PTE5031RLE, this will be a direct bolt on & give you nice spool. Bullseye also has one that uses their custom cast housing which will give you abit more top end at the cost of abit of spool (larger turbine A/R)

 

[GloriousDSM]

Also, you'll want to look to work on your suspension, your tires and wheels can also make a diffrence. Prothane mounts, and an LSD as stated above. Also having a linear turbo such as the 50 trim will help control tire spin and wheel hop as opposed to a E316G on a FWDwhich will come on sooner and harder at lower rpms

_PGG

 

[dandanthedsmman]

Well with basically any turbo upgrade you going to need to upgrade your fuel system (pump, injectors & something to control/log it). Do you want 400 wheel hp or crank? I ran the evoIII and if your looking for 400 whp on pump, then I would pass on it. Yes its been done but is defently not the norm & you will need all the bolt on's to get you there. Now 350-380 crank hp in the evoIII is a reasonable goal & can be done without too much hassle. It will hit harder then a 50 trim and taper off in the top end, traction isn't too bad in a fwd, it was probably better then the t25 since mine spooled at like 2400 when it was ported. I have an LSD now so traction isn't to much of an issue.

For your goals I would recommend a 50 trim as well, probably a BB version if your mainly a DD. Check out PTE5031RLE, this will be a direct bolt on & give you nice spool. Bullseye also has one that uses their custom cast housing which will give you abit more top end at the cost of abit of spool (larger turbine A/R)

do u have a particular link for the turbo u have in mind>? i found a 50 trim that is relatively cheap but im guessing isn't the best one for a DD?
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18905&cat=263&page=1&veh=2G DSM

keep the advice/recommendations coming i really do appreciate it and the sooner i understand what turbo is needed the sooner i get the turbo and supporting modifications


thanks guys

 

[boostd92]

buy the BR 440, out put, 446 HP, ooo and it just so happens that i have 1 for sale!!!

 

[daren_p]

do u have a particular link for the turbo u have in mind>? i found a 50 trim that is relatively cheap but im guessing isn't the best one for a DD?
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18905&cat=263&page=1&veh=2G DSM

keep the advice/recommendations coming i really do appreciate it and the sooner i understand what turbo is needed the sooner i get the turbo and supporting modifications


thanks guys

The one you have linked isn't a bad turbo, thats a std 50 trim with bullseye's bolt on housing. This turbo does have the B compressor cover, which is a smaller cover. For a 50 trim I would recommend going with the larger E cover that is standard on most of the 50 trim's out there. If you go to www.dejontool.com they have a bunch of PTE turbos, you can see both the 5031 & 5031 RLE versions there (same turbo one is std bearing one is ball bearing).

If your looking for std bearing here's a PTE version from extreme:
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=17341&cat=506&page=1

& the BB version is here:

http://www.extremepsi.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=18342&cat=882&page=1

Dejon carry both of these as well.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

The PTE SCM5031e would work well for you (it is a very common 50 trim) I have one that flows 51lbs/min and that should definitly get you to your goals... Mine is for sale and i will sell it for cheaper then a E316G. PM me.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Whats wrong with the Evo III 16g ? I think SBR had a dyno of 400 Whp with it. It's only $550 and you still have another $1000 to play with. You can get a S- AFC, some 650 cc injectors, Walbro 255, and basic intake and intercooler piping and you just might do it. I only have a small 16g and my goal is 325 conservatively..
A 50 trim would be very nice street/strip but if you want to stay within that $1500 budget without much traction issues, the Evo III just might be your sleeper choice man

 

[2gAWDTalon]

Whats wrong with the Evo III 16g ? I think SBR had a dyno of 400 Whp with it.

They did not make 400+whp with a E316G for 1500 buck, that is a promise... however this exact topic, HP goal and turbo coice has been
SBR had unlimited dyno time, and everything you could do to a car to make 400 whp on that turbo, and i bet it wasnt on pump gas.

A 50 trim would be very nice street/strip but if you want to stay within that $1500 budget

You can get a SCM5031 used for the same or less (from me) then a Evo 3 16G. The SCM 5031 is a bolt on turbo...

 

[dandanthedsmman]

hmmm i just went to my friends shop and talked 2 him about 50 trims and he seems to agree that a 50 trim will do it but...he made a comment about 7 bolts which had me thinking a lot about putting my money into an engine swap...he said that it's really difficult to have a 7bolt not crankwalk at over 350horses...what the hell was he talking about?

should i invest in 1gen engine instead of a turbo>? and then worry about turbo after the swap?

if i got cams cyl heads cam gears and etc..could i prevent crankwalk from happening? or would i replace the crankshaft? orrrr what?

 

[BISHILVR]

You cant prevent crankwalk, some engines do it and some dont. Crankwalk does not happen because of horsepower either, it happens because of side load on the crankshaft. I would stay away from a high pressure clutch setup, that is what will usually push a 7 bolt over the edge, that is why your friend thinks that high horsepower is what causes crankwalk, because most people with over 300 hp have a act 2600 or something around there, and it adds too much side loading to the already weak 7 bolt design and its over.

 

[Yoshi]

You cant prevent crankwalk, some engines do it and some dont. Crankwalk does not happen because of horsepower either, it happens because of side load on the crankshaft. I would stay away from a high pressure clutch setup, that is what will usually push a 7 bolt over the edge, that is why your friend thinks that high horsepower is what causes crankwalk, because most people with over 300 hp have a act 2600 or something around there, and it adds too much side loading to the already weak 7 bolt design and its over.

i've heard of a "RUMERD" way to decrease the chances of getting Crankwalk but it still might happen down the road is to go to your local Mitsu dealer and have them charge u a arm & leg for a new set of Thrust bearings and while the motor is in peaces get either

A: get the Crank balanced
OR
B: get a new AM crankshaft (recomended)

but back to the topic i think DSM link along with a pair of HKS or AEM cam gears & cam's would do u good along with a Big 16G GT. if your moving from the stock T-25 then a Big 16G GT would be a good start so u can get used to extra power and not kill urself

 

[dandanthedsmman]

i've heard of a "RUMERD" way to decrease the chances of getting Crankwalk but it still might happen down the road is to go to your local Mitsu dealer and have them charge u a arm & leg for a new set of Thrust bearings and while the motor is in peaces get either

A: get the Crank balanced
OR
B: get a new AM crankshaft (recomended)

but back to the topic i think DSM link along with a pair of HKS or AEM cam gears & cam's would do u good along with a Big 16G GT. if your moving from the stock T-25 then a Big 16G GT would be a good start so u can get used to extra power and not kill urself

I think it is safe to say (according to all the different posts/messages i've been getting) that the big 16 g would not hit 400 horsepower, and the quick spool time would kill traction on my FWD...as for cams/cam gears....i have roughly 1500-2gran 2 play with....cams alone are at least a gran gears are another 300 bux (hks) and turbo/injectors/fuelpump/dsm link puts me well over 2 gran....

i think the evo 3 16g would be better for an AWD vehicle....at least thats the impression im getting

plus i wanna hit 400 ponies on a DD


if i was shootin for 325-350 that'd be a whole nother ball game...

 

[daren_p]

An evoIII isn't bad in a fwd with the proper supporting mods but the 50 trim will probably be better as the power is more linear. Maybe I missed it but are you looking for 400 crank or whp, which is a good difference. Its not the HP that determines crankwalk, like said its related to the thrust bearing & a heavy clutch/PP combo can help promote this but there are choices out there that have good clamping ability & are easy on the thrust bearing. The 7 bolts aren't as weak as lots of people like to talk them up to be. It also depends on the tune, which is the case for any motor. 400whp on a properly tuned 7 bolt should be fine.

Yes SBR made over 400 whp on the evoIII but this is far from the norm. Add every bolt on, a built motor & I believe race gas. Plus unlimited dyno access.

 

[brute]

Cams are no where near "at least a grand." Actually, it would probably be in your interest to get some cams at some point. If you don't want to shell out the cash for the HKS name brand cams, take a look at DKS, Brian Crowers, and Forced Performance cams. You do not need cam gears unless you have the time and money to hit the dyno and dial the cams in perfectly.

I agree with the above posts that your motor should be fine. Don't spend the money on a different motor when you already have one that works. Plenty of people have Evo 16g's on their FWD's. It's not like you're going to be spinning through 4th... It isn't that bad.

 

[BISHILVR]

I have an evo3 on my gst and it works great, no tire spin with urethane mounts unless I purposely make the tires spin, the evo3 is slow spooling enough to prevent it and as I said it has no "hit" it is very linear in how it builds boost. On the other hand I just installed a 50-trim on another car and it DOES have hit to it that would probably break fwd tires loose. Ymmv.

 

[Yoshi]

if traction is the thing he's worried most about losing then maybe he should look into getting a AM L.S.D. like Kazz or something. that will help him greatly with traction. but as far as C. Gears go im not sure if theres a difference between the HKS C. Gears, AEM C. Gears & Fidanza C. Gears

 

[dandanthedsmman]

They did not make 400+whp with a E316G for 1500 buck, that is a promise... however this exact topic, HP goal and turbo coice has been
SBR had unlimited dyno time, and everything you could do to a car to make 400 whp on that turbo, and i bet it wasnt on pump gas.


You can get a SCM5031 used for the same or less (from me) then a Evo 3 16G. The SCM 5031 is a bolt on turbo...

i might have 2 take you up on that offer
you still have the turbo?
400 at the wheels would be nice and ultimately what i would like but 400 at the crank isn't bad either