ported 14b vs small 16g

[boostedtsi0069]

Hey guys well im on a budget and im contemplating wether to get a small 16g or port my 14b. Which do you think would be better, i aint really looking for crazy power just want good redline, 13's in the 1/4 mile and hit the 275-300 hp range. I know you might say get the evo3 but it aint in my budget. I will have supporting mods im going with the blow thru setup (2gmas would be good but want to vent) fmic, 190 fuel pump, ported 2g exhaust mani., safc, 550cc injectors. I could do better and get more power going a different route but i like the difference and this is my daily driver so thanks for your help.

Also will the small 16g bolt right up?

 

[Splitpi]

Yes the 16g mounts right up.

I would recommend just porting the 14b and save your money versus the marginal gain of the 16g. The 14b is a good turbo and underated.

 

[Eastwood95]

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Turbo-compare.html


my opinion might be biased, but I say stay with the 14b and port it until you want to go bigger. That's what I'm doing.

 

[garrett21]

Currently I'm building my car to see how much HP I can get on a unported 14B with a stock engine, no cams, just bolt stuff. i want to see what it can do at max psi. The reason for not porting it is so I can run in a specific class for autocross. I hope to get a little help from a SMIM, something that may help or may hurt, who knows.

There is a member that has pulled 321 whp and 358 torque with a ported 14b with 7cm housing on a Dynapack dyno. That was on race gas and 25psi, no nitrous. This is in a Galant VR4 (heavy car) he ran a 12.373 @ 109.360.

So you can get a lot of power out of a 14b in you like running race gas.

 

[wcpierson]

i pretty much had the same plans as boostedtsi im gonna work my 14b into the ground with as much crap as i can bolt on the car im hoping to get around 300whp and run into the low 13s high 12s... i love the pull that i get out of my 14b but i know sooner or later im gonna want something that hits harder...but yea all in all i agree run the 14b as long as you can

 

[dsmsucks]

It would be alittle easier to get to the power levels your lookin for with a 16g at lower boost than the 14b! I have a ported 14b on my car now but next month Im getting a evo 16g!!! I looking for the same hp as u!!!

 

[habitatguy187]

Bringing this thread back from the dead cause I'm at this crossroads right now. I'm wondering how many more lbs a ported small 16g would push, cause if I buy a new one I'll probably port it before I put it in.

I'm only looking to run 20-21psi, so help me out guys.

 

[JusMX141]

Member dsm-onster has logged 38 lb/min from a Small 16G before. That's damn impressive considering they spool as fast as a 14B and move as much air as a Big 16G.

 

[habitatguy187]

Member dsm-onster has logged 38 lb/min from a Small 16G before. That's damn impressive considering they spool as fast as a 14B and move as much air as a Big 16G.

I've read his 16g post many times over, which had me set on getting a small 16g, but in another post I saw him talk about a ported 14b which he said, "really shines at 20psi ". So I'm undecided whether to spend some money on a turbo, or spend some money on porting tools and go to work.

 

[e85_4g63]

well at 16g will pull higher up in the rpm range (theoretically) then the 14b. Also the stock 6cm^2 turbine housing on the 14b is really hurting it.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^ Only if the 14b does not have the 7cm^2 turbine housing and only if the 14b is at it's compressor flow limit. If you're looking for no more than what 33-34lb/min can give you for your setup, and you swap to a 7cm^2 turbine housing, the 14b will have about the same shape hp/tq curve as a 16g.

The 14b will never do what any 16g will do with or without a 7cm^2 turbine housing. The 6cm^2 turbine housing really chokes the compressor. The 14b map extends to about 34lb/min; 60% efficiency. The small 16g map extends to about 38lb/min; 60% efficiency. So no matter how hard you push a 14b, no matter how much hp per lb/min you can generate, you will always have 4lb/min more potential out of the small 16g on the compressor side.

You can run a 7cm^2 turbine housing on your 14b and see the limit of the 14b compressor and rev the ever loving snot out of the wheel to get to 34lb/min. Or you can run a small 16g and have about the same lag as a 7cm^2 14b and get that 34lb/min while still being over 70% efficient and not be overworking the compressor. But if you already have a good 14b, then all you really need is a used 7cm^2 turbine housing and you can certainly see over 300whp. And probably on pump gas if you have decent intercooling. Guys have pushed the absolute limit of the 14b compressor with the stock 6cm^2 turbine housing. But your life will be so much easier and you can probably make the same power on pump gas, if you use a 16g 7cm^2 turbine housing on your 14b. You will have a 16g hotside, which has been capable of seeing 400whp on pump gas. And as I've alluded, if you have a decent intercooler, compressor efficiency becomes moot. So though the 14b compressor is less efficient that won't account for about 3-4 degrees increase in intake temps based on thermodynamics and imperical data collected by various users.

Porting a 6cm^2 no matter if it's to the out side of the wall still will not make it flow as much as a 7cm^2 turbine housing. When you port you're opening up the entrance, not opening up the entire volute. The critical area (volute area per a radius length) is what increases a turbine housing's flow. Port matching helps the turbine housing do what it should by just smooting out the transition. And buying the seal ring instead of porting the manifold and turbine housing inlet will still give you a smooth transition whill keeping the collector volume down. This is better for spool and for topend since higher velocity does more work on the turbine which in turn can do more work keeping the compressor up in your desired boost.

Same thing goes with a 7cm^2 16g turbine housing.

I say DO NOT port your 16g. I've run them ported so that there's no step for where the seal ring went with a 2g manifold which was opened up to match. And I've run one with my other option which involves no porting at all. And I noticed NO difference! ZERO! Spool was the same or worse with the ported setup. It was hard to really see much of a difference in spool so I'll leave it as the spool was the same. I saw 36lb/min at 22 psi with my setup with a ported manifold/housing and I saw 36lb/min after with the same setup boost and NO porting using my other technique. The other technique is outlined here: Don't port your 16g.

I was actually a little angry that I has spent literally days porting the 2g manifold and turbine housing. If you have a 2g manifold dont waste your time, do the above mod instead. If you have an evo3 exhaust manifold. Buy the damn 7cm^2 seal ring. You'll have a smooth transition which otherwise would take hours and hours to make with a grinder. Leave your grinding time and energy for the wastegate. Those who felt a gain in their 14b or 16g turbo setup after porting never used a seal ring. Their hours of work paid them however much a seal ring costs. . . or less, what my above mod costs. A big for all your effort because there's no benefit in performance over a properly sealed transition.

. . . Nevermind the stress you take off of your turbo gasket by sealing it properly.

 

[Splitpi]

I would recommend at a minimum porting the dump tube however to make it cleaner and smoother as well as larger. While this does nothing to add to spool or power, it helps to fight boost creep.

 

[habitatguy187]

Thanks for the link, I actually learned alot from it. Also I'll probably upgrade to a small 16g, or at least get a 16g housing until I can afford the whole 16g.

 

[dsm-onster]

The 7cm^2 turbine housing will wake that 14b up. It a good CHEAP upgrade to do to any setup with a smal intercooler upgrade and 550s with a 190 fuel pump. Budget speed! Used $75 7cm^2 turbine housing, stock 14b, ebay FMIC, walbro 190, 550s and a 2g maf. Budget 320whp car that won't leave you stranded.

If you remotely plan on more, just get a small 16g. If you know you want more than 350whp get an evo3 16g or for $100 more get the fp 18g 6sl2 for 10% more power at the same pumpgas tune. The 300rpm difference in lag is worth the difference between the 18g and evo3 16g, in my book. $100 for 10% more power at the same boost is almost like cheating. Kind of like getting a bolton hx35 for under the cost of a new evo3 16g and having the same spool and 3-4lb/min more flow at 22psi. More flow per psi than even the 6sl2 18g.

 

[GsxEcutioner]

Currently I'm building my car to see how much HP I can get on a unported 14B with a stock engine, no cams, just bolt stuff. i want to see what it can do at max psi. The reason for not porting it is so I can run in a specific class for autocross. I hope to get a little help from a SMIM, something that may help or may hurt, who knows.

There is a member that has pulled 321 whp and 358 torque with a ported 14b with 7cm housing on a Dynapack dyno. That was on race gas and 25psi, no nitrous. This is in a Galant VR4 (heavy car) he ran a 12.373 @ 109.360.

So you can get a lot of power out of a 14b in you like running race gas.

Jon Vr4 went low 12's, with a gm maf, fmic, ported 14b, pump, and a safc tune.........