stroker wisdom needed!

[ralliartist]

Ok. I've been around for a while, just haven't made that many posts. I can't post in stroker tech yet so I'm posting here cause I need some good dsm wisdom. I recently had a bearing failure in my car. It was only a balance shaft bearing failure but since I'm gonna take it all apart now, I've decided to do a stroker build. My goals are 11sec times and a very fun street/everyday drivable car. Here's my list of parts so far:

'92 talon tsi awd 6bolt automatic
1g head (port/polish, 3-angle valve job, 1g manual cams, all new seals, 3g lifters)
2g ported exhaust manifold
2g ported 02 housing
3" turbo back exhaust
FP2544 turbo, Ported
Supra SMIC
650cc injectors
190lph pump
Balance shafts removed
apexi safc2
pocketlogger

Here's what I'm thinking of doing with the bottom end:
6bolt 100mm stroker crankshaft (already have)
1g 6bolt big rods (my stock rods)
wiseco 8.8:1 stroker pistons (going to buy soon)

I honestly don't think I'm going to put down more than 450awhp especially with that turbo since it's only rated at 44lbs/min. I don't plan on upgrading turbos anytime soon, and I know that when I do, I will have to use different rods to withstand the power. My question is, Should I be worried about using my stock rods? They are in great condition and the only power they've ever seen is stock with the 13g. They show no damage at all from the balance shaft bearing failure. I think I should be good. But I just want to make sure. I've done all this work myself. I've got all new gaskets, seals, pulley's, tensioners, belts, clevite bearings, arp hardware. I just don't want to spend another 400 or so dollars on rods when I don't think I'll be at the power lever for a while if ever. I know they are cheap insurance, but I just don't think I'm ever going to go that far with my dsm. If I do decide to push the limits, I will of course tear it back down and get rods. But do you guys think I should be good on my stock rods with a stroker, or is the rod angle and stress going to be too great for a stocker. Please help me make the right decision.

brad

 

[andymoraitis]

I can understand your desire to use your stock rods, but if you're going to build a motor for 400-450 WHP, put rods in it that will handle 600. There's no point in building it and then re-building it again to handle more power. Any good set from Eagle or Manley will work like a charm (I prefer the Manley's myself). Since I have no firsthand experience with the 1G rods, I don't know how well they would handle the side loading stresses but I'd rather having something stronger installed.

If you're going to be flowing 44 lbs/min keep in mind that this isn't much more than 450 at the crank (not to the wheel). The stroker is an air hungry setup and will make short work of anything smaller than a 50 trim however your setup should be quick spooling and plenty of fun on the street. Build up that bottom end so that when you're ready for a larger turbo, all of the supporting mods are in place and you'll be ready to go.

I also think you should consider larger injectors. At 46 lbs/min (25 psi) running 44 psi base fuel pressure I pretty much max out my 650's. I'd look into a better fuel pump (255 wih an AFPR), larger injectors (850's or 950's) and something like a chipped EPROM ECU or DSM Link to control them. If you go with a chipped EPROM you can add a custom tune for timing and A/F and still use the AFC for fine tuning or ditch it all together. Link is obviously the best choice. I would recommend that you treat your fuel system like your bottom end; overbuild it for the future and not just to meet your immediate needs.

Hope that makes sense,

Andy

 

[drivemusicnow]

The cost of taking your 1g rods and machining them to work for the wiseco pistons can be a fair amount of money.

Also, the supra SMIC might not quite be enough for repeated passes, as heatsoaking will probably be an issue.

Everything else looks pretty good.

 

[99gst_racer]

The cost of taking your 1g rods and machining them to work for the wiseco pistons can be a fair amount of money.

If he gets to correct pistons, he won't need to machine the rods. For example, Wiseco part number K571M855 (.020 overs), is to be used with the 4G63 block, 4G64 crank, and 21mm wrist pin. So that would allow him to use his stock 1G rods or an aftermarket equivalent.

Wiseco has pistons available for the 2.3L and 2.4L engines with either wrist pin diameter. If you order the correct ones, PE machining is not necessary.

 

[drivemusicnow]

I didn't know they made the smaller wrist pin pistons. Are these still a "full floating" design, or would the still be pressed into the rods?

 

[99gst_racer]

I didn't know they made the smaller wrist pin pistons. Are these still a "full floating" design, or would the still be pressed into the rods?

That depends on what rods you're referring to. The Eagle's are H-beams and they are a bushed floater design. And the Wiseco's come with locks to retain the pin. They are both the same design they've always been.

 

[ralliartist]

well, my bud is trying to persuade me to just buy the slowboy stage 1 stroker kit that comes with remanufactured crank, eagle rods, wiseco pistons, all clevite bearing and arp hardware for about 1200 bucks. Should I just go that route? I haven't read too many good reviews about slowboy. Should I be alright?

I'm also being persuaded to go megasquirt. I don't know too much about megasquirt, but do you think that would be a good idea? Does it have all the control that dsmlink does? let me know.

brad

 

[andymoraitis]

I have the SBR kit and I'm happy with it, but I don't know enough about Megasquirt to offer an opinion.

Do a search for Megasquirt under titles only and see what comes up.

Good luck,

Andy

 

[drivemusicnow]

well, my bud is trying to persuade me to just buy the slowboy stage 1 stroker kit that comes with remanufactured crank, eagle rods, wiseco pistons, all clevite bearing and arp hardware for about 1200 bucks. Should I just go that route? I haven't read too many good reviews about slowboy. Should I be alright?

I'm also being persuaded to go megasquirt. I don't know too much about megasquirt, but do you think that would be a good idea? Does it have all the control that dsmlink does? let me know.

brad

First off, I've ordered well over 1000$ from SBR, haven't really had a problem (slight exception with a sway bar, but that was the manufacturers fault, not theirs). That said there are plenty of vendors that sell the same parts if you are concerned.

Second, I wouldn't order that kit. Reman cranks can sometimes mean undersized, and depending on who remanufactured them, this could be detrimental to the quality of the crankshaft. I don't know who does SBRs reman cranks, but I guarantee that going to a salvage yard will net you a much cheaper, but slightly more labor intensive option. You could probably pick up 2-3 and have your machine shop pick which one they think is in the best condition.

Figure you can get pistons for ~400$, Rods for 350$, bearings for about 110$, New OEM main bolts for (can't seem to find a price right now), and ARP head studs for ~100$. That's about 1000$ for parts, and figure the crankshafts are about 50$ from a pick and pull. Guess it depends on how much that time is worth to you. (EDIT: SBR kits don't come with either the head studs, or new OEM mains, which I would recommend both)

Megasquirt is an interesting system. For cars that do not have much aftermarket support it is a great thing. For cars like DSMs that have excellent aftermarket support, like with DSMLink, I would not reccomend going that route. While I have only personally worked with MS once, I constantly hear that it is a huge PITA to setup, and that while in the end it is effective, there are better solutions for these cars. Even on my SVX (NO aftermarket support due to small production) people are very hesistant to go with something like MS for driveability and setup concerns.

 

[andymoraitis]

Second, I wouldn't order that kit. Reman cranks usually mean undersized, and depending on who remanufactured them, this could be detrimental to the quality of the crankshaft.

That's why we pay a few bucks to have them magnafluxed...

I do agree that a new crank is better, but not all of us have the coin to spend on one nor do we have junk yards within 100 miles that have 4G64 cranks.

 

[ralliartist]

well, I already have a g4cs crank. I was going to get the kit from slowboy just because it would cost about the same as ordering all the parts seperately. I could get the kit and use my g4cs crank anyways. Also, the SBR stage 1 stroker kit does come with all new arp hardware and clevite bearings, piston rings and what not, I called them and they told me it had everything for your bottom end.

I'm still not sure about the MS. I don't really have the money for DSMLINK. I'll have to ponder over this one.

andy, can you assure me what the sbr kit comes with? also, what kind of power are you putting down?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I have also had the SBR Stage 1 kit and I liked it as well. For the money it was a great kit. I got Eagle rods, Ross pistons .020" over, and a reman. crank and magnafluxed it before install. The Eagle rods come with ARP rod bolts but you don't get the mains. You get everything but main studs which you can use your stock one's but I bought ARP main studs as well when I ordered my kit.

 

[ralliartist]

I think that's just the route I'll take. SBR Stage 1 for me!