So I have to make a decision..Water pump fix/other fixes or engine swap?

[IllusionX90]

My water pump recently went and it's going to cost me close to 700 dollars to replace it, I need to change the water pump, timing chain, balance shaft belt, tensioners and pulleys.

I had a white/bluish smoke problem before the water pump went. I don't think the water pump had anything to do with the smoke, I have no idea. The shop that is going to do the work is going to do a compression test for me, or check the motor to make sure it's even worth doing.

A friend of mine showed me a site on ebay selling a 4G63. Head,motor, turbo etc, all of the ones I saw were like 1500, I'm not sure how much installation would be but it's literally a motor swap because right now there is a 4G63 engine installed.

I was just hoping to get some opinions on the matter because I'm not really sure what to do, I don't know if the smoke is coming from the turbo/rings/head gasket, or if the A/F mixture is off like the previous owner said. Anyone have any similar problems, or any ideas?

 

[yokotabrat]

Determining the condition of the motor should probably be priority 1. Chances are the water pump wasn't causing any of your smoking problems (unless the motor overheated because of the water pump failure). There are a couple of tests that can be done to get a good idea of the condition of your motor. A compression test is easy and can be done with a simple and cheap tester available at a number of stores. A leak down test is more complicated, but when done properly can tell you the condition of the valve seats, head gasket, rings, etc. I'd definitely recommend the shop doing your work perform this test, especially if the compression numbers look low. You can also get a good idea of the condition of the turbo by checking for shaft play, rotation, and excessive oil in the intercooler and associated piping.

I'd be hesitant to believe the A/F ratio is off with the limited number of mods on the car, provided you are running fairly low boost. A logger is a good way to get a rough idea of A/F ratio by looking at fuel trims. If there were a problem with a clogged fuel system, it would probably show up under closed loop conditions which would then show up in your fuel trims.

As far as the engine swap is concerned, I guess that would depend on the results of the testing mentioned above. I'd definitely make sure you get an engine from a reputable shop. See if any locals have ordered engines from particular places and get their opinions. Also RRE has a page that you can reference for engine importers: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/4g63motorsearch.htm

A couple of links that might help:

VFAQ: http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html
Tons of information including how to do a timing belt/water pump job if you have the time and ability to do the work yourself.

http://www.forcedperformance.net/faq.aspx
Some good info at the bottom concerning turbos seals and smoking.

Also some general information, usually blue smoke indicates oil burning and white smoke is usually water vapor from either coolant burning or just from natural combustion since a large portion of the gas created is water. A common cause of oil consumption on older dsms is valve stem seals.

Good luck! It's late, so hopefully this makes sense.

 

[IllusionX90]

Okay so I'm a tad confused, I wanted the mechanic to do a compression test before he does the pump and belts, his exact statement to me was "The compressions fine because the motor runs".

I'm not exactly positive on how to do a compression test but I've been reading on VFAQ, does the car have to be running for him to do it, and is that a valid statement, he keeps saying there's no way of telling if the head is worth it with no water pump because he doesn't want to run it to normal op. temps.

Should I just have them do the pump and belts and if the head gasket goes replace the entire motor, Not like I really have the money to do either but I just don't know what to do. It does make any sense. Someone explain please..

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Okay so I'm a tad confused, I wanted the mechanic to do a compression test before he does the pump and belts, his exact statement to me was "The compressions fine because the motor runs".

That's a false statement......you CAN have a running motor with bad compression on 1 or more cylinders, although it would not be running in the best condition.

The car should be up to operating temperature before the test, however, you could do it cold and if one cylinder was dramatically off you would have a starting point at which cylinder to give priority on.

I wouldn't want to pay someone to do work and the car still doesn't run, but yea, I guess you can pay him to do the belts and pump......then do a compression check shortly afterward before it leaves his shop.

 

[JayRolla]

If the mechanic said that I would go to a new mechanic.

 

[IllusionX90]

Yeah I guess I'll have no choice, I just hope I dont waste 600 dollars doing this and then in a month I'm going to need to do an engine swap anyways. My other problem is I don't know what else I'm going to need if I buy a 4G63 motor and I don't have a good mechanic to do the swap, so I guess only time will tell. What would you guys do if you were in my situation?

 

[jastermerrel]

Do yourself a favor and find a new mechanic. Also, if you have the time and tools (a basic set is all that is really needed), think about doing the water pump yourself. A Chiltons/Haynes manual, www.vfaq.com , and this website are all the information that you'll need. I knew jack about working on cars before I bought my GST, and now I'm perfectly comfortable doing anything that needs to be done.

Also think about this...If you buy another motor for $1500 plus pay someone ATLEAST another $1k in labor for doing this swap, you could have your motor rebuilt and know that it is in perfect shape.

 

[IllusionX90]

Do yourself a favor and find a new mechanic. Also, if you have the time and tools (a basic set is all that is really needed), think about doing the water pump yourself. A Chiltons/Haynes manual, www.vfaq.com , and this website are all the information that you'll need. I knew jack about working on cars before I bought my GST, and now I'm perfectly comfortable doing anything that needs to be done.

Also think about this...If you buy another motor for $1500 plus pay someone ATLEAST another $1k in labor for doing this swap, you could have your motor rebuilt and know that it is in perfect shape.

I'm going to find myself a new mechanic, I have yet to find one that is I like, that I feel i cna trust. I eventually wanted to do a new turbo, FMIC and a AFC, maybe DSMLink. I was going to RIPP modified and they seemed cool, just pretty far away, something I'll deal with. The next thing is I wish I could do the water pump myself, I tried to check it out, seems like I gotta take both belts off and I'm worried about messing up my timing, the other thing is I know it sounds lame but I'm not supposed to bend or lift cause I just had back surgery and getting underneath doing the work isn't good.

After I get the car back I plan on doing a compression test, I noticed with the smoke I was getting out of the exhaust I needed oil every week or so, seemed low. Previous owner told me the screw on the intercooler, messes with the air/fuel. I wasn't sure how that effects the smoke, next thing is maybe the turbo, or the seals for the turbo. I want to pick up a used 14 or 16 this way I can rule it out, I'm thinking a 16 because regardless I want to upgrade.

The other reason I'm letting the shop up the block from me do the pump and the belts is because my mom has been bringing her car there for years, although I'm not fond of their work, they say they'll take the time and do it right, if they don't then they'l rebuild my engine.

I'm going to post pictures of the engine and the screw I keep talking about, and I'll keep an updated post of whats going on. What exactly do you mean by completely rebuild the engine, and what goes along with it, and what might it run me?

 

[1gcrazy]

Yeah find another place. That guys a moron. I'm sorry bud there is no screw on your intercooler that adjusts air/fuel.
I say this to help you, not to be a dick: If you get more hands on and greasy after your back heals you wont get dooped into believing that stuff. You'll know better. I was inexperianced once before and so was everbody else but I think now would be the best time for you to start you're endless quest of dsm knowledge.
I started on V8's, moved to DSM's and i've been into and around cars for almost 11 years now (my dad started me young) and I STILL feel like i hardly know anything .

I think in the long run the engine rebuild would be the wisest thing you could do. I would find a shop with the best warrenty against #### ups.
My friend recently went to a place in Alamosa, a podunk town in colorado, to rebuild his head.
The guy told my friend if theres ever a problem he'll back it 100%. Well a week later the car overheated and warped the head. He took it back down there on a trailer he RENTED then the guy proceeded to tell him he needs a new engine. Well this dude told my friend he had to pay half. I flipped out but my friends passive when it comes to his elders. On top of his 1100 dollar original bill for the head rebuild, he wants him to pay another 1200 for the new engine(which is apparently HALF the cost[BS]) but the dude put a "low mileage" 7 BOLT IN HIS 90 GSX!! I was like HELL GIMME THE HIGH MILEAGE ONE AT LEAST!

This was all before he asked my opinion... after he told me about the 7 bolt i had to walk away....it wasn't my car...i was so damn frusterated...
anywho, lesson here is find a good reputable shop...the extra cost now is worth it compared to double the original price. Oh and get everything written on paper. NEVER trust someones word when it comes to money no matter how disrespectful you think you're being. TRUST ME.

 

[IllusionX90]

Okay so I got my car back today. It ran me 699.01. Heres the deal.

They did my water pump, timing belt, balance shaft belft, cams and crank seals, whatever pulleys/tensioners had to be done and 2 radiator hoses that were cracked/leaking. And refillled all my anti-freeze hah.

I don't think this was a bad price for the work done, the car rides really nice now, thermostat reads right in the middle, seems smooth. And apparently when he tried to explain the compression thing to me he didn't mean what I posted above, he meant the engine ran but there was no way of letting it run to operating temp because no water pump so he couldn't check the compression. He told me everything is under warrenty and he stands behind all of his shops work. So I guess well see. What do you guys think?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I think you should do a compression test and post up your numbers.
But thats not all bad for the work that was done. It's going to be $700 for a timing belt job no matter which way you look at it.

 

[IllusionX90]

I'm hopefully doing a compression test this weekend and going to post the numbers, if all is well I am going to work on paying my cc bill and then looking into wheels, tires, turbo and intercooler.

Any suggestions?