help! 450cc/stock fuel pump hahn super 16g 15psi still RICH!!

[MarkAngelo05]

Hi there, I'm running the setup in the topic title, w/ 3 inch dp, and no cat to 2 1/2 inch exhaust. got a FMIC, and I believe my car has a stock fuel pump. My LED a/f gauge pegs at the last green light and my o2 voltage is at consistant .95-.96 at WOT, my autometer egt gauge reads 1350 degrees fahrenheit at WOT 2nd and 3rd gear pulls, its mounted right after the 02 housing (per autometer instructions to install right after turbo, not before due to probes breakin and blowin things up) Nothing is done to the 2G MAS, except for a KN filter. both front and rear o2 sensors still hooked up, no CEL, new plugs, 2 step colder ngk, new wires, pulls strong, but i guess I can get a lil more out of it... I smell UNBURNT FUEL TOO! its like a sweet smell.

I currently have FIC 650cc injectors and an AFC NEO standing by for when i turn the boost up to 19psi and after I find out what is up with my car.


Thanks everyone for your info!! and help!!!

Mark

 

[vr4play]

Why are you running such cold plugs. I bet if you went to the stock plugs, you would be lighting up that fuel quicker. I am running the 7's on my setup and get great performance. I was actually runnning +4's when I had a setup similar to yours and they worked great.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

I am using the BR7ES plugs from RRE,, sorry, i ment its one step colder than stock. i ran the stock oem NGK's before and still rich...

thanks for the response.. anymore oppinions??

 

[turbodsm18]

I thought most people mounted their EGT gauge on the exhaust manifold and not after the o2 housing. Also the autometer AF gauge, if thats what you have, is just a blinking light show, it serves no good.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Your .95-.96 volts isn't that rich. Also your suppost to mount the EGT gauge in the #1 runner. You only mount after the turbo on say a turbo diesel where there are 2 exhaust manifolds. A Super 16g @ 15psi isn't out of the 450cc injector range. Probably running 100% duty cycle though. You need to install the SAFC then tune. You want to run around 10.8:1 anyways which is around .94 volts so you are fine. So hook up the SAFC, and turn the boost up a couple PSI at a time. I would recommend getting a logger though so you can tell when you start to get knock. Also you may have a difficult time tuning the 650's with just an AFC. I would have gotten 550's as they can take everything a 16g can throw at it.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

wow.. alright.. I did search around the forums for awhile about 650cc w/ safc, and i found good oppinions/experiences with it.. I really hope I can use it because I already spent the cash for them and they are sitting on my desk... My plan is 19 to 20psi NO MORE! Since I am running my 450cc injectors right now, sometimes i spike to around 16 psi and i hit fuel cut! really scary stuff, I will be gettin my logger soon and thats when i'll install the 650cc injectors.. i already have the afc NEO in the car, I used a buddy's logger and we leaned all rpms about -8% on HI, and -13% on low... got rid of the rich smell, and o2 voltage was around .93-.94 but i'm hitting fuel cut at 15psi...

Can my stock fuel pump support 19-20psi?? on a super 16G?? with 650cc injectors?

 

[92BoostedDSM]

your gonna need to get a pump, besides there not that expensive anyways.

 

[crazy_skier]

look into a walbro 190 fuel pump as the 255 will be overkill without a fpr and it can cause trouble tuning as I ocasionally have. Also, forget what you have been told about the 650cc injectors and being a p.i.t.a. to tune. I am running 680cc injectors, a safc, and 16 p.s.i. right now out of my 50 trim due to getting a rebuild and I have not had to hard of a time tuning, although I did recently purchase a WB O2 which is great. Are you running factory internals right now?? if so you would still be fine up to around 22-24 psi with your 650cc injectors depending on how your car has been treated in the past. Get those injectors on asap and if tuning is hard most dyno shops will do an hour of dyno tuning for around $100 at least here and some are cheaper/more expensive. They could get a good base tune on the 650cc injectors for you and then you could tweak it. Sorry bout the long post

 

[MarkAngelo05]

Thanks crazy skier.. giving me some hope!!I will invest in a 190 fuel pump... i was thinking 255 walbro, because I thought it just recirculates the fuel back to the tank.. the stock fuel pressure regulator should keep it to stock fuel pressure... right???

I was told that my engine was rebuilt at 80k miles... I changed the head at 102k miles and put on a stock composite Head gasket, arp head studs, new head, and when i looked in the cylinders, i could still see signs of the honing marks very clearly! so i guess i believe them... and the pistons were very clean.... except for the exhaust crud....

any more help???
Mark

 

[spyderturbo007]

i was thinking 255 walbro, because I thought it just recirculates the fuel back to the tank.. the stock fuel pressure regulator should keep it to stock fuel pressure... right???

Yes, and no. The unused fuel is recirculated back to the tank, but the stock FPR can't keep up with the increased flow of the 255 pump. This causes you to run rich and screws up your FT's. It won't hurt your WOT tune once you get over about 5 or 6psi, but it sucks a cruise and idle. Stick with a rewired 190 if you don't want to spend the money on the AFPR.

Do you know the flow of the Super 16g in lbs/min? If you know that, you can check out my post here and get all the information you need about fuel injectors and pumps.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244522

 

[JayRolla]

sometimes i spike to around 16 psi and i hit fuel cut! really scary stuff

You should not be hitting fuel cut at only 16psi. My brother has ran 25psi and no fuel cut on a 2gmaf. You most likely have a boost leak and thats why you hit fuel cut.

 

[crazy_skier]

if your engine was re-built, like you were told you should not run into any problems with blowing up at the psi that you want to run. Also, just check and see if there is any crankwalk, becuase if caught early enough they can change out the bearing with a bearing properly machined for the crank. You would need to order the bearing though a dealer as mitsu made minor changes in the crank and had different bearings.

 

[blkwidow]

Please don't say the ''C'' word around here when it's not necessary. Alot of people tend to get real scared by this.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

hey blkwidow, thanks for the warning... i see you're from CHULA VISTA MAN! i'm originally from cali, fallbrook and chula vista...movin back next yeear!! but i heard smog will suck.. ima try hawaii plates till they tell me to change it..

The HAHN SUPER 16G supposedly flows 550 cfm.. as for the boost cut... i have not installed the larger injectors nor put setting in my SAFC....

mark

 

[blkwidow]

I would only boost around 13psi. Im not going to lie to you, smog does suck here. Let me know when you get back in town, we can hit up La Bellas

 

[MarkAngelo05]

sorry for being a lil off topic.. is it possible to pass smog?? like can i get help.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

I think I figured my problem out... I believe that my 450cc injectors were starving the engine of fuel, therefore up top, it pulled back timing and indicated a rich O2 voltage .95 because less fuel was being burned.. right?? well, i installed my 650cc injectors and it runs like a champ now.. gonna install my EVOIII GT 18G turbo tomorrow.. i'll keep ya'll posted..

mark

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

My 650s, 255, afpr are a whore to tune!