Engine is doing the "Shake Rattle and Roll", need some opinions...

[Street Lethal]

I could really use some advice here. I tried a search, but didn't find anything similar to what I'm experiencing. Okay, so I'll start from the beginning. Engine started smoking, and heard from different sources that it was either the valve seals, piston rings or blown head gasket. So, decided to fix all three issues, along with the addition of some mods, but guess what, still smoking. Turns out the Turbo's leaking... but more on that later.

The engine ran fine before it's dismantle (aside from the smoke, that is). Anyways, we installed a set of CompCams (there's a thread mentioning them somewhere on here, in which titled CompCams vs HKS cams). We reseated the valves, installed new valve seals, new head gasket (in fact, new gaskets everywhere... courtesy of Mitsubishi). Pacesetter header, 3" downpipe, 3"converter, 3" catback (it'd be easier to say 3" exhaust, I know, but I'm trying to break it down as best I can for you)....

Anyways, everything was torqued to spec, and we're pretty sure the timing is set up properly. However, when started, she shakes hard enough to loosen a filling, and stalls within three to four seconds. We'll disconnect the battery for a few minutes, hoping to reset the ECM... and believe it or not, she'll run constant with no SES light (but with the same bad idle though). Alas, but when we turn her off, and restart it again, same thing... she'll run for four to five seconds, but then cut off (I'm sure some code was thrown by then though).

Anyways, we're trying to attack it from all angles, and we really need some direction here. I'm aware the engine needs tuning now because of the camshafts, and we're hoping to have a prom burned for us soon (based on our specs, of course). An adjustable fuel regulator is a given, and we're ordering that tomorrow. The stock T25, we decided to simply rebuild it (I know, it's not worth it, but right now, it's our only option), and up the psi a little...

Question though, is it possible that these camshafts can be the reasoning behind the rough idle, and stalling? I'm sure upping the fuel pressure will help it some (once we receive it, and install it), but is the new prom just as vital (in reference to the symptoms) as well? The timing should be right, but I was told that someone might have turned the crank when I had the belt off... and after what I read on VFAQ.com, the oil pulley needs to be set properly.

Which leads me to the next question. Today we wanted to make sure that the metering shaft is set properly, and if it wasn't, we were going to (like VFAQ explained), rotate it 360 degrees (while keeping the screwdriver in place). VFAQ even explains the EXACT symptoms if the oil pulley is out of sequence (violent shaking). The problem though, is we can't even find that darn plastic screw (in the block) . We looked everywhere, but we're obviously not looking in the right spot though. Can somebody please tell me exactly where it is? The mechanic's at Mitsubshi are telling me that you can easily obtain the access that you need without removing anything, is he correct in saying this though?

Anyways, I know I have my work cut out for me, but I brought it down to a few possible causes though. 1) Oil pulley/metering shaft out of sequence. 2) New prom needed immediately due to more aggressive camshafts. 3) AFPR needed to up fuel pressure (fuel starvation). 4) All of the above....

Now, the engine still smokes of course, but before we rebuild (or possible buy a new) turbo, I at least wanted to get her idling properly again. I apologize for such a long thread, but I wanted to detail this as best as possible. Can anyone think of something that I might have overlooked, or possibly suggest something that I might be missing...

Any feedback would be appreciated...

Thanks!

-Rob

 

[Street Lethal]

Sorry, I forgot to mention what I'm working with here. 1995 Mitsubishi GSX. Was bone stock before we did anything to it. The above mods is all she had done to it (aside from a new, but stock 2g bypass valve)....

 

[Quasimondo]

What about the balance shafts? They might be out of phase after you re-installed the timing belt.

 

[Irrational]

How Did u line all your timing marks up?
Id think they are off if you never evin tryed to line the timing marks up.
Did u check the MAF is pluged in tight?
Did you set the ignition timing?

 

[brknDSM]

The run for a couple seconds very rough, shut off, turn back on run fine for a bit thing you have going on...the *exact* same thing happens when you have a massive boost leak. Try pressurizing your intake. That exact same thing happened to me the other day, I blew a weld on my intake

(ha ha, yeah it's funny until it happens to you )

 

[Street Lethal]

What about the balance shafts? They might be out of phase after you re-installed the timing belt...

I really appreciate the response. I actually called out sick today because this is my only means of transportation. After countless searches last night I finally came across a thread with a detailed picture of the balance shaft plug. The car is already on jackstands now, and once the rain either subsides, or at least slows down, I'll be cofirming this to at least remove this as a possibility...

The one thing that makes me hesitate, was the added response I got from the Mitsubishi tech. He added that if the balance shafts are not timed right, then the violent shaking would only occur at an increased RPM of over, approximately, 1500 RPM, and not at idle. Although I value his opinion, I stillneed to eliminate this as a possibility though of course...

How Did u line all your timing marks up? Id think they are off if you never evin tryed to line the timing marks up. Did u check the MAF is pluged in tight? Did you set the ignition timing?

When we initially removed the head, we lined the timing marks up entirely. However, I have a bunch of home mechanics trying to help me out, and from what I was told... one of them (new to Mitsubishi's), wanted to clean the tops of the pistons for me, and repeatedly turned the engine over by hand. I'm not going to point fingers at him though, he honestly wasn't aware of how critical the timing on these engines are. Once everything was reinstalled, we lined everything up again. I myself admit though, I had no idea about the balance shafts until I read that VFAQ site. I really hope that it's that, but with the aftermaket camshafts, it's going to be much harder to diagnose. I'm hoping to have that being a possibility ended today, for sure...

When we installed the header and exhaust, we left the MAF sensor in it's housing, and once unplumbed from the turbo, left everything in the engine bay intact. Just to be sure though, I'll definitely give it the once over. Ignition timing was left alone, I'm hoping to have all that taken care of when the prom is burned. The people at CompCams said that the engine, with the addition of the cams, should idle "decently", and although it needs a tune, that it shouldn't be stalling like that (assuming fuel pressure has been bumped up, of course). The AFPR has already been ordered, and I'm really hoping that it's that...

The run for a couple seconds very rough, shut off, turn back on run fine for a bit thing you have going on...the *exact* same thing happens when you have a massive boost leak. Try pressurizing your intake. That exact same thing happened to me the other day, I blew a weld on my intake...

Please tell me that this is it, as I completely forgot about this minor issue. We had a very difficult time accessing the lower intake bolts, and although my friend (with very skinny forearms, and even smaller hands) tightened them, he's not sure how tight they really are (even he had problems gaining access), although he admits to tightening as best he can. Just for arguements sake, could it be that? Is there a tool that makes life much easier in accessing those bolts? I myself can't even get my bare hand down there, let alone while holding some tool. My goodness, I was so wrapped up in tuning, proms, CAS, timing, that it could very well be a vacuum leak.

Here's a question though, with the engine idling as described (providing there is NO vacuum leak), and it the symptoms either being due to timing, or tuning, will a vacuum gauge embellish the proper vacuum psi? I'm sure it will be erratic (the vacuum needle in the gauge), but will it be somewhat accurate though if there is no leak, with these symptoms?

Thanks for all the awesome feedback. I'm going out to eliminate the possibility of the balance shafts, and if their okay... I'll get working on the possible vacuum leak on the lower side of the intake. My goodness I hope that is it. Again, I know for sure the engine needs to be tuned, along with the added fuel pressure... it's just the stalling that has me concerned though. I'm brand new to Mitsu ECM's, and I'm not sure if their programmed to cut off fuel when they sense such a symptom

Stay tuned....

 

[Street Lethal]

Update for those who are interested...

Last week, the engine went from idling exremely rough, to not even being able to idle at all. Pulled the new plugs, and numbers 2 & 3 were saturated with oil. Yanked off the new bypass valve, and it too was soaked. Dropped the lines from the turbo leading to the intercooler, and, well, lets just say I went through three full bags of kitty litter...

We ordered a turbo rebuild kit over the weekend ($70.00), as well as removed the stock turbo untit from the engine. The AFPR was already installed, and after we rebuild the turbo, I'm hoping to have it at least "idling" again...

Frustration starting to set itself in...