2Gen GSX 7Bolt to 6Bolt Swap, Need help

[IIIISFL]

My car is a 99 Eclipse GSX AWD. I want to swap the 7Bolt for a 1Gen 6Bolt Block and Head
i tried to find answers on the search but it's hard to find.
I need to know if i just pull out the 2Gen Block and Head and put in 6Bolt block and head will they bolt right up to everything, Mounts, Tranni, Alternator, Water Pump, ect.
I know that the Transmissions have alot to do with being able to bolt right up.
Since my car is a AWD, Does the 6bolt have to be from AWD car aswell?



P.S. Sorry for posting yet another "Engine Swap" thread.

 

[alex]

A little word before you go on. I didnt write this, the author is down below (i want to give credit to where its due) I joined a group when I was considering doing a 6 bolt swap on my car but instead I rebuilt a 7 bolt. This is very long but informative and sorry I dont have pics but i didnt do it.

The DSM 2nd generation engine swap to a 1st generation 6 bolt 4G63 engine

By Luke Richard


This is for all you people who want to put a 1st generation (1G) 6 bolt 4G63 engine into a 2nd generation (2G) car. It doesn’t matter if you don’t know a whole lot about cars; this is a step by step explanation of everything. I did mine to a 96 (exact same as 95) Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX. It doesn’t matter if it’s AWD or not, it’s only a step different at the end. I’m going to try to make things very simple, I’m not trying to down play anyone I’m just trying to make it easy to understand for everyone.


Why do the 6 bolt swap?


The 6 bolt engine was made between 1990 and July of 1992. The reason it’s called a 6 bolt engine is because it has 6 bolts on the flywheel. The reason you want to put a 6 bolt engine into your second generation
DSM is because these engines don’t have the problem with crank walk, they are a better built engine, and were rated the 2nd best 4 cylinder engine ever made! They have been making the 4G63 engine since 1978; it’s
much more solid than the 7 bolt engine. Some people claim that they can run 450+ HP on the stock internals of the 6 bolt. Oh, and for those of you who are thinking about putting a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market)
Engine into it, don’t bother, there is no difference between a JDM and USA except for the word “cyclone” on the intake manifold. So what you’ll want to do is find an engine with lower miles at a junk yard or sometimes
you can find one online at various places.


What method to use? This engine swap is a very common one and there are 3 different ways of doing it so far, the Magnus Motor sports way, Road Race Engineering I, and the Road Race Engineering II. I will be doing it the Road Race Engineering II. Either way will work but I found the Road Race Engeneering II looked to be the best way.


What things do I need to buy?



These brands are highly recommended but not necessary



1. Get a NEW timing belt FROM THE MISUBISHI DEALER. If you listen to one piece of advice from me listen to this: get a timing belt from the
Mitsubishi dealer; they are different from the ones you get from an auto parts store e.g. Auto Zone or NAPA. I have compared them side by side and there is a big quality difference, racers swear by them. There is
also a timing belt offered by TODA racing that’s supposed to be 200% stronger than anything else on the market:
http://www.todaracing.com/products/m...ming_belt.html



2. Get a New thermostat, they are an easy fix and it’s a good thing to replace on an engine that you don’t know too much about.



3. Get 5 quarts of 15w 40 Royal Purple engine oil, it’s one of the best oils out there, if not the best. It runs about 5-6 bucks a quart. Your car requires 4.5L. Some people also run Mobil 1 or Amsoil.



4. Get 3 quarts of GM synchromesh for the transmission. These transmissions tend to “go bad” if any one hasn’t noticed, and this tranny fluid is very compatible with it. You have to go to a GM dealer to get this stuff, just call them up. For many years of smooth shifting get this stuff. It runs about 10 dollars a quart.



5. Get a Mobil One 105 oil filter, they are bigger and better than other ones specified for the car by other manufacturers. They cost about
$11.50 each, or get a 92 Mitsubishi 3000gt VR4 oil filter. This will help with valve noise.



6. Get 1 quart of Red Line MTL or MT90 for your transfer case.



7. New clutch. If you are planning on having this car for a while, then you’re going to want to put in a new clutch, better now than later.



8. New belts for AC, alternator and power steering.






Stock parts to get off your old 2nd generation 7bolt engine before you scrap it:



1. The tranny: The second generation trannys have vast improvements and are longer lasting, plus they have the engine mount to hook onto the engine cross member.



2. The turbo exhaust manifold - it is better designed for flow and resists cracking.



3. The AC pump, mounting bracket and tensioner that is on the bracket. It will fit the AC hoses better and it has a smaller pulley which means a little extra horse power.



4. The fuel rail with fuel pressure regulator and injectors, these will work better with your Engine Control Unit (ECU).



5. The Throttle Position sensor (TPS)



6. Throttle body elbow, it’s bigger and will fit to your 2G air hose. You can port this to better fit your bigger 1G 60mm Throttle Body and remove the lip on the inside of the bend for better flow. Don’t get too greedy while doing this; the metal’s not that thick.



7. The power steering pump - you don’t even need to disconnect the lines, leave it on the car.



8. The ribbed drive pulley to the power steering pump.



9. The driver’s side engine mount that goes through the timing belt cover.



10. The Temperature sensor on the thermostat housing.



11. The little barrel capacitor on the top right of the intake manifold.



12. The Manifold Differential Pressure sensor (MDP), the sensor on the top of the intake manifold. Some people call this the Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor, but because of the pressurized air put in by the turbo, it’s called the MDP.



13. The pistons, the 2Gs have 8.5:1 static compression from the 7.8:1 of the 1G. It will take some machining of the stock 6-bolt rod to work with 2G pistons. That’s if you want to tear the engine down.



14. For people who aren’t concerned with performance the 2G intake manifold and throttle body will work just fine with your 6 bolt head and it will make the install much easier.



1G 6 bolt parts you’ll want:



1. The complete 6 bolt block, head, and intake.



2. The 1st gen Blow Off Valve (BOV) it’s a metal one that can hold a lot more pressure. It’s set up differently but you can modify it to fit your 2g set up.



3. The 1st gen Turbo, (it spools up faster) and the oil cooling lines to it. Also a bigger after market turbo is a wonderful thing to do in the swap.



4. The Throttle body – 1G’s have a bigger 60mm Throttle Body (TB) as compared to the 2G 54mm TB.



5. Cam Angle Sensor connector and wires to rewire into the 2G wiring harness. You can cut one of these off a junkyard wiring harness.



6.1G water pump, usually already on the engine, a new one wouldn’t hurt they are not to expensive and are easy to change while the engine is out, after you put the engine in its virtually impossible.



7. The injector wire casing, it’s the L-shaped plastic piece that bolts
onto the intake manifold.



8. Radiator hoses.



If you want to a little more horse power at the wheels what you can do is take your 6 bolt fly wheel and have it resurfaced and milled. A shop can mill off the 2 lips on the backside of the flywheel. This slight modification trims off 4 pounds of rotational weight! It’s a very worthwhile modification that does not decrease reliability, if your flywheel is in poor condition don’t do this as they can break and reek havoc upon you transmission bell housing. Also an after market light weight aluminum flywheel is a solid investment.





Tools needed:



A Chilton’s Eclipse/Talon manual, it covers all the DSM years.

Your basic mechanic’s tools, torque wrench, etc.

Engine hoist with balance bar

Engine stand (its handy)

Dremel or other grinding tool.





OK you’re ready to start!



You can soften the seals on you timing belt cover, oil cap, radiator cap and injector rings by soaking them in some Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) for a day while you put the engine in. Be careful removing the seals, they become very brittle after time and can break if you flex them too much.



I am going to give you other web site addresses that explain certain steps in detail to keep this shorter, and because they do an excellent job.



1. The first step is changing the engine mount. You’ll have to alter the engine mount setup to accommodate a 2g engine mount. This web site will tell you everything you need:
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/1g2g.asp.



2. To install a new timing belt, just read your manual or go to
http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html



3. Grind the belt cover to fit over the new engine mount, be careful and make it a good fit.



4. Now take the timing belt cover seal for the engine mount hole (soaking in your ATF), and cut it to fit the modified engine mount hole. Make sure you add a little extra on the ends to make it a tight fit. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to put a spot of glue on the bottom edge, because if this falls into your timing belts it’s really going to mess your engine bad. Some people do run without these, as they break often, but I think you’ll want to keep as much dirt out of the timing belt as possible.



4. Now for the AC. You can use the 1st gen AC pump, and everything that’s on the engine already. All you’ll have to do is change the AC electrical connection on your wiring harness and take the alignment pin out.
You can do it the hard way for a small gain in HP, and a more solid set up. To do this take off all the 1g AC, just unscrew the 4 bolts that go into the bracket that holds in the pump and tensioner in. This is where you need to decide whether or not you’re going to use your EGR. The EGR routes hot air into your engine when you first run it and it’s cold. If you live where it’s hot most of the year take it out you don’t need it and it will give you some extra horsies. If you live, and plan on driving, where its cold most of the year (e.g. above the 45th parallel), then you probably want to keep it. To keep your EGR system is a big pain and I’m not going into the details of that since most of you are going to take it out anyways. So take out the bracket to the right of it,on it are vac lines to the EGR that are no longer important. This may look like it holds up the Intake manifold, but it doesn’t and you won’t compromise anything by removing it. Then put the 2gen AC bracket with the pump and belt tensioner back on and you’re set.



5. Now is decision time: the MDP. Your first gen engine does not have this mounted on your intake manifold, either you can plumb it on to the top of the manifold with some drilling and welding, or you can connect it to the break booster vac line. This is the biggest line out of the back of the manifold. You’ll have to lengthen your wires but it will work.

Either or will be fine.



6. Take off your 1g fuel rail, put on your 2nd gen Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) then put on your 2gen fuel rail, also put in your ATF soaked injector rings, wipe them off good



7. Put your 2g alternator on



8. Switch your 1st generation V-belt power steering drive pulley to your second generation ribbed belt pulley.



9. Put on your Power steering belt first,( it won’t connect because your PS is still on your car). Then put on all the other belts. And you’re set on that side of the engine.



10. Put on your Exhaust manifold. Be very careful putting these bolts in. The book will tell you to put them in at 36 Ft-Lbs. This is only if they are brand new, and I recommend getting new ones, but if they are old then only put them in to 26 Ft-lbs.



11. Bolt on your turbo. When you are doing this, connect the oil cooling lines to the turbo.



12. Put in your 2g temp sensor in the 1st gen thermostat.



13. Bolt on your fly wheel to 96 Ft-lbs with LocTite® on all the bolts.



14. Line up the clutch and pressure plate with the clutch alignment tool you got in your new clutch. Getting a new clutch now will save you money in the future.





15. You’ll need to put on your 2nd gen starter bracket, but before you do this you’ll have to modify it. The bolt hole on the bottom will not line-up and you’ll have to grind a hole up and towards the front of the engine. Also the transfercase (AWD) will need more room to fit on. You’ll need to trim where that bottom bolt was, trim it almost back to the original hole and you’ll need to pull the metal out that’s above and to the back of the engine. You’ll see this all when you try to put on the transfercase and it won’t fit on. No worries though, it’s not that hard to grind and fit it when it is on the car.



16. Bolt on the tranny



17. Put the starter in place so you can bolt it on in the future





Now to put that 6 bolt in

1. In order to drop the engine in you will need to remove the radiator, the hood, and the engine cross member that goes from the fire wall to the front. Pneumatics are a big help here.



2. Put your engine on your hoist.



3. Engines just don’t drop in, I’m sorry to say, but with some jimmying you can get the right, back and left engine mounts in place. Bolt them in and take your hoist off.



4. Fit your transfer case (AWD) back in, it should slide on. If there is a lot of resistance then you need to grind more off the starter mounting bracket. Put the drive shaft on when you are doing this. These bolts do not need to be in very tight; they are threaded into soft aluminum so don’t put them in with a _ in. ratchet and torque them in!



5. Put the cross member back in.



6. Now I would hook up all of the hoses: the break booster vac line, heater hoses, turbo hoses, etc. I won’t go into detail with all of this because I would have to write five more pages.



7. Hook up your AC.



8. Put your power steering pump on. (note to self: put the belt on it
first)



9. Put your axles back in.



10. Once you’re done with all this you will have to get into the wiring



11. Bolt on your 1g or 2g starter with the ground wire connected and plug in the other connections.



Now for the wiring:

You’ll have your wiring harness just sitting off to the side in a mess so find your injector wires they will have a black L-shaped plastic casing around them, put this just across the intake manifold. The other side of this harness is the battery and starter wires; these just lay on the battery tray for now.



Take the black wire casing off the harness and discard it

You’ll have to change some of these wires around because the sensors are now in different locations. So you’re going to have to tear open the harness to correctly do this. If you don’t do this right you could end up with electrical problems because you didn’t make good solid connections. So twist up your wires, fold them over, and after you put them in the butt splices pull them to make sure they are solid. When you’re ready use Scotch 33+ electrical tape® to wrap things up.



You’ll notice that the power pack (big rectangle plug) and the coil plug (triangular plug) on the 2gen would sit in between the manifold and the head. On your 6 bolt engine they are relocated and are now on the driver’s side of the engine, in the back by the timing belt. Either you’re going to have to take the sensors and move them to the plugs or you’re going to have to extend the plugs to the sensors.



What I found was the easiest way to do this was to take the power pack and mount it to other side of the engine, no re-wiring necessary. Then for the other sensor take a 1g connection from an old wiring harness and run the connection to the sensor.

BAM you’re done with that.



Now for the cam and crank angle sensors. Road Racing Engineers do a great job of these connections, and there’s no need to do something twice.
Here’s the web address:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm



Once you are done with all this, wrap everything back up in your Scotch 33+ and put that 1st gen cover back on. Bolt everything back on and you’re set.



About the Engine Control Unit (ECU) (aka. ECM): it’s mounted in the center counsel on the drivers’ side. Just take out the dr. side council panel and you’ll see it. Unclip the back of the bottom plug and use a tiny flat blade to remove the pins. The instructions are on the same page as the cam/crank sensor at
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm



To find out where all the other connections go look in your Chilton’s manual; it would take forever for me to describe all these to you. Everything else should just hook up fine. So, just look at a manual or have one of your friends come over with their turbo DSM for a visual of how everything connects. This web site may be helpful:
http://members.shaw.ca/dsm.1000q/Engineprimer/



Fluids:

~ Drain out that old oil if you haven’t done that already and then put in your new Royal Purple oil. (Note on a used engine you might want to put some cheep sacrificial 5w 30 oil in it and add some sealers or Motor Flush in it. Run this for a week and then change it to your good oil.)

~Drain your transfercase and put in about _ of a quart of gear oil

~Drain and fill the tranny with your GM synchromesh

~Fill your radiator up, by the way

~Bleed your clutch system, Note: do this with your car level!





To be safe the best thing to do before you start your engine is too prime it. You do this by unplugging your fuel pump (very easy take out the rear seat and undo 4 bolts) then you take off your spark plug boots, crank the engine over for about 30 seconds then plug everything back in and start it up



Typically when you first start your engine it will rev up too 6k, and then it will die right down as soon as you start to drive it. Oil leaks are very common too some Lucas stabilizer oil is a good solution to engine oil leaks and transmission leaks.



After all this there will be some tuning to do to get time it right, but that’s basically it.





Start your revamped 2nd Generation 6 bolt, turbo DSM, and enjoy.

 

[dave99gst]

The trans dont matter, the 6bolt can come out of either a m/t or a/t, awd or fwd - you will need a AWD 6bolt flywheel.

 

[IIIISFL]

Thanks i think i got it.




Any bolt on parts you can advise me towards.
Since i'm going to be ripping apart the hole engine bay i dont mind waiting a cuple paychecks to put the right parts in, I'm in no hurry.


DSM

 

[jepherz]

I doubt this matters to you, but I think the above writing is incorrect on the "cyclone" comment. As far as I know, most "cyclone" labeled intakes have two sets of runners with flappers on one set, set to open at higher loads. Also, the oil pans on a 1g AWD vs. FWD are different, so keep that in mind when you're finding one for your 2g.

There is a lot of people who do this swap because of the crank walk stories, and although I have no experience with crankwalk myself, I have been reading that a 7 bolt is a fine option for most people as the actual crank walk occurences are much less than you would think.

Does anyone know exactly what is causing the crank walk on 7 bolts? Is it the tolerance on the main bearings? And is this something that can be corrected if you want to rebuild a 7 bolt?

 

[IIIISFL]

Does anyone know exactly what is causing the crank walk on 7 bolts? Is it the tolerance on the main bearings? And is this something that can be corrected if you want to rebuild a 7 bolt?

I agree there must be a way to replace the Bearing that breaks and causes the crank walk
with a stronger one. But then again if there was, I'm sure the guys that this happens to would just fix it instead of swap their engines.

 

[ericbev]

Although some people make claims that they have found the solution to crankwalk, nobody really has proof either way to what causes it. Some say its from insufficient lubrication, some say its the differences in the density of metal in the 1 and 2G crank, some people say it could be from harmonics, some say its from heavy pressure plates putting excessive pressure on the thrust bearings, some even attribute it to the assembly process of the motor itself. If you search around for these threads youll have 20 different anwsers to what might cause it.

Like stated above there are alot of 7-bolts that have logged some really high miles with some hefty HP numbers and never walked. Some 6-Bolts have walked shortly after rebuilds. In my opinion, I wouldnt worry about it. Even if it does happen, you can get a 6-bolt swap done for a very reasonable price if you shop around.

 

[IIIISFL]

Hey you guys, I also want full engine management (Full EMS) and DSMLink.

So are there any extra sensors/thermostats anything of that kind that
I need to install for better readings off the motor tranni stuff like that?

Well maybe not Need to install but extra optional ones?

 

[dave99gst]

you want a full stand alone AND dsmlink ?

You go with one or the other, not both.

You can add a 3bar map sensor to monitor boost level with dsmlink

 

[IIIISFL]

you want a full stand alone AND dsmlink ?

You go with one or the other, not both.

Oh i'm sorry i meant Or.
AEM EMS Or DSMLink i read alot about both DSMLink seems to be by far, Much better.

 

[SexyDSM95]

Oh i'm sorry i meant Or.
AEM EMS Or DSMLink i read alot about both DSMLink seems to be by far, Much better.

DSMLink is more of "AEM for Dummies". It incorporates a lot of what AEM is capable of it's just not as detailed. DSMLink is cheaper and works just as well for what it is. There is also more support for DSMLink IMO compared to AEM.

 

[90turbotsi]

Correct me if im wrong but I have not noticed any difference in the 6 Bolt AWD and FWD oil pans being any different, yea all the lower crossmembers are but the pans? The 7 bolt pans are yes different. (I have a few 6 bolt pans here they all look the same!?)

For a swap, are the coolant temp (both of them) and the Oil pressure sensors (idiot light and gauge sensor) different on a 6 bolt and a 7 bolt? I think the coolant temp ones may be but I cant find my damn 2G thermostat to compare...better find it soon I want to drop this motor in this weekend!

 

[kidwiththelaser]

Can I advise you to reconsider??

Correct me if Im wrong but there is nothing wrong with your current motor, right?
Other than the offhand chance that it will crank walk, id say stick to the 7-bolt motor, spend the money on making the car go faster, like turbo and supporting mods. And if you end up throwing a rod or crank walking, at that point you should swap in the 6-bolt motor.

Just something to think about.

 

[krummel21]

What if I don't have the injector wire casing from a 1g? Also someone told me that I would need a 1g oil cooler is this correct? Also I'm going to use this instead of splicing the CAS wiring.

Magnus Motorsports - Electrical Products

Also the change engine mount link is dead in the 6-bolt swap directions. What all does this entail and do I need the 1g starter or bracket?