Convince me whether or not to keep my ABS

[CrazyUglyCoyote]

Alright like the title says, Give me your supporting opinions on whether or not I should keep my ABS. I do alot of SOLO II racing. Please school me. Thank you!

 

[Quasimondo]

Well, given the fact that you do participate in a lot of competiton driving, I think it's safe to say you know what point your brakes will lock up, so I doubt safety will be an issue (though it is something worth seriously considering). Having said that, how much weight are you going to lose by ditching the abs? Unless you're doing the total weight loss package and stripping your car down to nothing but a steering wheel, shifter, seat, and pedals, I don't see much benefit in yanking it unless it's already broken.

 

[blackGSX2g]

I'm going to agree. Its really not that big of a weight savings. If you just don't like having the feel of ABS on a track, just pull the fuse and put it back when you drive on the street. Personally I don't like the feel of ABS period, but I keep it around just in case.

 

[turbosax2]

I would like to hear more people's opinions on this - road racers in particular. I'm considering ditching the abs and making all new brake lines with an adjustable proportioning valve. So for those of you who have raced with and without abs, please share your opinions.

This is the main thing holding me back from getting rid of it.

 

[cruisintalonawd]

the only reason I would get rid of it was if I needed the room. I removed the ABS in a 94 integra once and it was kind of a bi***

 

[turbosax2]

I'm not concerned with the difficulty of removing them; although I have never dealt with brake lines before, I'm sure I can figure out how to do what needs to be done. I'm interested in getting rid of it to save weight (albeit a small amount), clean up the engine bay, less wiring, and less parts to worry about failing. The adjustable proportioning valve may also improve braking and allow for experimenting with different braking components if used properly.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I think my new talon might have abs, not sure, haven't looked at it, but seeing all the features it has, i think it might. Anyways, if it did i wanted to get rid of it, because im so used to my car without abs, ive never driven any other car. I've never had a problem without it, and even if i did have it, it would have made a difference whether i crashed or not, fwd did that to me. So, what does abs feel like once it engages? and how much better is it on an older car like this which had the early form of abs compared to the newer abs systems?

James

 

[absolute_DSM]

Eric, talk to jtmcinder. Ive talked to him about prop valves in the rear brakes. Id be very interested to know what you find out if you take on that project also.

Also, the ABS removal is pretty easy for anyone wondering. Youll of course need the non ABS prop valve, and the 4 different brake lines (MC to each front brake, then the 2 master cylinder to prop valve.) But then you just remove the ABS controller and the computer under the passengers side firewall. The only pain is getting the brake lines in and out, but a little persuasion helps.

 

[turbosax2]

Eric, I think I have read every post Jtoby has written on abs. Summed up, removing abs on a 2g awd and replacing the system with a non-abs proportioning valve is only ok on cars of stock height. This would be fine for my car for now but not when it gets lowered. I can't find the thread where he explains all this in detail right now.

I would basically copy what underradar92 has done with a Wilwood adjustable prop valve and a 2 lb. residual pressure valve for the fronts. He talks about his setup here. A good visual diagram for what I am talking about can be found here. My setup just wouldn't include the 10 lb. rpv's - they're just for drum brakes.

Although I only started researching all this today, I think I have figured out basically what needs to be done. I haven't done the detailed research to find exactly what and how many fittings I would need, but that can wait until I have decided if I want to partake on this project. The only reason I'm considering it is because I will have my car torn apart this summer with all the maintenance and little modifications I have planned, so with the engine out this project will be much easier. I just haven't yet decided if I want to ditch the abs system because of cost to replace everything and because of what DG has to say on the subject.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Id be interested if you happen to find that post about the lowered suspension with the adjustable valve. I may be able to find it also with some searching.

I looked through the threads and I guess Im kind of reluctant to go to a F/R split instead of the OEM diagonal split like Jim did. Ill be daily driving the car and I guess Im just a worrier.

Fittings and lines - the good part is you can get them at local parts stores, which Im sure you already knew. I can see it being very easily to plumb up with simple tools.

Anyways, Ill let this get back on topic, but if you care to update me on your brakes, feel free to PM me.

 

[turbosax2]

Found it - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/233563-2g-awd-abs-removal-help.html
Other info - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/236667-abs-controller-relocation.html

I didn't really think much of the safety issues from switching to F/R until you mentioned it. I wonder how much I should worried about the master failing? My car won't necessarily be a daily driver but it will be a mainly street driven car. I just like to pretend it's a race car

 

[underradar92]

Fittings and lines - the good part is you can get them at local parts stores, which Im sure you already knew.

The tubing is the same diameter as regular parts store brake tubing, and I just double flared the original fittings onto the new tubes, as they are metric where they interface with the original (M/C, hoses, etc) stuff on the car. In retrospect, if I hadn't already replaced the hoses with s.s. lines, I'd have made my own using pre-crimped -3 hoses instead of adapting all that metric jazz back & forth.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Found it - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/233563-2g-awd-abs-removal-help.html
Other info - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/236667-abs-controller-relocation.html

I didn't really think much of the safety issues from switching to F/R until you mentioned it. I wonder how much I should worried about the master failing? My car won't necessarily be a daily driver but it will be a mainly street driven car. I just like to pretend it's a race car

Ah, curse that first link. I knew throwing in the non ABS prop valve was a bad idea. I suppose it will be ok for the street for a while. I suppose now fabbing up my own system like Jim did will be on the to do list.

I cant remember what thread it was but people were mentioning that running a diaganol split on a system like you thought up could cause brake lockups under hard cornering. I think you were in that thread... but what are your thoughts on that now?

 

[matt98eclipse]

I have the abs installed on my 91 gsx and im thinking about removeing it. How hard is it to remove it and what all would i need?

 

[turbosax2]

Ah, curse that first link. I knew throwing in the non ABS prop valve was a bad idea. I suppose it will be ok for the street for a while. I suppose now fabbing up my own system like Jim did will be on the to do list.

I cant remember what thread it was but people were mentioning that running a diaganol split on a system like you thought up could cause brake lockups under hard cornering. I think you were in that thread... but what are your thoughts on that now?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/258970-pad-knockback.html

That's where me and Jim have been tossing ideas back and forth. First of all, I'm no brakes expert and I have never raced any car, so I really have no room to talk. I'm just reading and learning what I can.

I don't think the brake lockups were because of the diagonal setup. I think when Jim was talking about the brake lockups, he was talking about the 2 channel 1g abs in particular in conjunction with threshold braking into a turn. So it sounds like the 1g abs is junk. I'm not sure if 2g's have 4 channel abs but it's gotta be better than than the 1g's abs.

I actually took your advice and pm'ed Jtoby and asked him a few questions to get involved in the discussion. If he doesn't post up his reply on the other thread I will relay his information on.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to retain the diagonal setup. I called a few places to see if they have heard of a "dual adjustable prop valve" but nobody has. I guess you could still use 2 separate prop valves for the rears and just make sure they're always at the same settings - I would just be concerned with the accuracy of the settings on the units to be sure the rears are seeing the same pressure.

 

[turbosax2]

I have the abs installed on my 91 gsx and im thinking about removeing it. How hard is it to remove it and what all would i need?

How fancy you wanna' get?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/258970-pad-knockback-2.html

 

[turbosax2]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/231540-1g-abs-removal-help.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20040203030637/http://www.mckeone.net/abs.html

 

[underradar92]

Eric, it would get complicated but there are brake pressure guages Wilwood Engineering - Pressure Guage and even APVs with adjustment points. Wilwood Engineering - Proportioning Valves Hard to say if the "clicks" are going to be fine enough to be useable however.

Or you could just put a mark on the 2 knobs at 12:00 and move them both equally. This is easier if they are in reach of the driver.

 

[turbosax2]

I was looking at the knob style Wilwood apv like you have. They would definitely be placed in the interior within reach of the driver so they can be adjusted quickly. How many settings does your apv have? Do the "clicks" lock into place so you can feel which setting it is at?

Two of the lever style ones could be placed next to each other so the levers could be physically connected so they can only move as a unit. Those are twice the price of the knob style though and you only have 6 preset settings to work with so adjustability suffers a tad.

 

[underradar92]

Yeah I'm none to sure on the lever style ones either. The knob style doesn't have clicks. That is why one would have to visually clock the knobs. I think they could be adjusted pretty evenly that way.

 

[turbosax2]

Ah, I was under the impression the knob style apv had clicks. Hm......I will have to do some creative thinking here to devise a mechanism to turn both knobs at once, just cause I'm anal like that. To the Batcave!