Slipped Snapped Broken Timing Belt T-Belt [merged]

[aznerd11]

a few weeks ago, my car started idling poorly so i never started it since. i checked for vacuum leaks, but i then found it to be a problem with the timing belt. When i lifted the top cover, i noticed a rip on the belt and the belt off a few teeth on the exhaust sprocket. So now im in the process of changing it but now im stuck. Please see pictures.

rip
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/bboygenius016/tbelt011.jpg

off teeth on exhaust
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/bboygenius016/tbelt010.jpg

after 1/4 turn of the crank, the teeth lined up again, which made it skip some more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/bboygenius016/tbelt012.jpg

how do i get the timing to TDC with the teeth off?- i started turning it softly but then i felt a restriction and it moved itself counterclockwise.
also how do i get the crank sprocket off without the tool?
This is on a 90 laser turbo

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

take off the belt and line everything up. the resistance is compression..

 

[InjenTalon96]

u remember thou, u mite have bent valves, i skipped on tooth before and i had a few bent valves....good luck

 

[1993TalonTsiAWD]

If it's off a few teeth chances are the valves are junk, and you need to redo the head.

You going to have to take the t-belt cover off to find TDC. look under DSM VFAQ, you can take the 1 spark plug out, and turn the engine over and stick a rod in there until the piston is at it's highest, but I don't recamend it, Also since the t-belt is off a few teeth I wouldn't turn the engine over, as you have a good chance of bending some valves. I would say almost 85% sure you will have some bent valves. How many miles is on that belt, Also when and if you put a rebuilt head on, but some insurence, get new t-belt pulleys, and auto tensiner (SP), and water pump, and a new belt for sure, make sure it OEM quility as others can fail, do lots of reasearch and you'll be fine I did it and mines running, just not 100% yet

good luck Derek

 

[gsx951]

go to www.vfaq.com and follow the instructions on installing a t-belt.
as far as your valves go, i skipped once and was fine. it depends on how far your belt jumped.
at the least, you're going to need the parts for a tiiming belt job. i reccomend this guy for both price and service: http://jnztuning.com/

 

[Shadowfax]

T-belt shore quite a few teeth... I was doing about 20mph - snap. Knew what happened pretty quick... popped off the timing cover and the belt didn't move turning over the motor. So I take the timing cover off, it's soaked with oil - I'm sure that helped in the demise... it was a 6000 mile old belt

But the part that bothers me most - there were NO bent valves... in talking with quite a few DSM'ers- they hadn't ever seen one break while driving that didn't bent at least a few valves... I KNOW I've just experienced something kinda like winning the lottery... but my question is this - WHAT THE HELL?!?! Should I count lucky stars and reuse the head, or put in the stock head I just picked up on? Knowing that I SHOULD have bent valves and didn't, doesn't make me feel good- it's makes me VERY worried...

in the wisemen's opinions- shouldn't I have bent valves, and really, how on earth didn't I? 16 valves moving with 4 pistons at 2000+RPMS SHOULD = fubar'd

 

[onegee]

Well I'd play it safe and examine it throughly. I'd HATE to do a timing job and find out somethings wrong. I too had a stroke of luck when my balance shaft belt snapped and DIDN'T get tangled in the timing belt.

I'd just go ahead and put on the other head, clean up the area, find the oil leak, fix that, and reassemble everything. My cam seals leaking on my old head caused alot of havoc on my timing belt and associated parts.

pz

 

[BlackbirdOfPrey]

I slipped my T-Belt before without bending valves, but a BROKEN one? You are lucky indeed. My dad snapped the belt on our 97 sebring, and he had to replace all but 2 valves in it (this was around 2k rpms as well). I'd say play the lottery this week. You might get lucky again.

 

[lhhc]

Hey guys,

Hopefully you don't think I'm hijacking this thread, but I do have a related problem. Over the last 4-6 months, my power steering pump has been leaking, soaking my p/s, alt belts. Last time I brought it into the shop about 2 weeksa ago, they said that theres a pretty major leak somewhere behind the time belt cover. They were not able to tell whats leaking, but they said that the balance shaft belt and timing belt are saturated with engine oil. Now, I know thats bad, cause I dont' want to slip a timing belt, and be not as lucky as you guys, but I also have no idea whats behind the timing belt cover....I've never been that deep into my engine.

Also do you guys think it would be better and even cheaper to just drop a new engine in it? Shop says $550 for timing and balance belt chage, plus fixing the leak behing the timeing belt cover. Then around another $300-$400 to replace the p/s pump and all the upper belts.....what do you guys think?

Thanks a LOT for any advise/help you can give.

Joe
[email protected]
IM- lhhc30

 

[Shadowfax]

Hey guys,
Last time I brought it into the shop about 2 weeksa ago, they said that theres a pretty major leak somewhere behind the time belt cover. They were not able to tell whats leaking, but they said that the balance shaft belt and timing belt are saturated with engine oil. Now, I know thats bad, cause I dont' want to slip a timing belt, and be not as lucky as you guys, but I also have no idea whats behind the timing belt cover....I've never been that deep into my engine.

Well, that's what's up with my motor currently - there was an oil leak- valve cover around the cam gears, and I think one of the cover bolt holes were seeping
Definately ruined my day...

Also do you guys think it would be better and even cheaper to just drop a new engine in it? Shop says $550 for timing and balance belt chage, plus fixing the leak behing the timeing belt cover. Then around another $300-$400 to replace the p/s pump and all the upper belts.....what do you guys think?

Thanks a LOT for any advise/help you can give.

IMHO the BEST thing you could do is fix it yourself. These cars a dead easy to work on (coming from a guy who knows the 3/S 6G72 WAY too well ) and really, you'll start doing it sooner or later... someone says it will be XXX.XX for a simple fix, and you realize you can do it and save the money... then it will be - well, I have to replace the timing belt, might as well do the water pump too... oh, oil pump is gettin old...

it progresses nicely... don't be too worried, it's not a horribly difficult thing to do, and probably a LOT less to fix yourself than buy a new motor and get it dropped in...

 

[lhhc]

I think I could definetly do the work myself. I would probably need to read up a little more and probably ask some questions along the way, but I have been working on this motor a little at a time over the last 3 years, so I do know quite a bit about it, I just always 2nd guess myself when doing the work myself. Also I would need a 2nd vehicle, this is my daily driver, and I travel 60 miles round trip to/from work.

after work today, when I get home, I'll scan the page taht the dealership gave me as to all the things they found wrong with the engine. but basically it boiled down to a leak behind the timing belt cover. Power steering pump leak. replace timing, balance, p/s, alt belts.

might also have to replace the alternator, since the p/s has been leaking on it for about 6 months..

Thank for all the info/help

 

[lhhc]

I might add that my car has 114,000 miles on it. One more question unrelated to this thread (sorry) but my drivers side cv joint is starting to click really bad. I put the car up on jackstands a few days ago and checked out both cv boots....both are fine, no cracks, or tears....could the joint just be out of lube? would lubing it fix the problem, or could there be something else wrong?

 

[Shadowfax]

One more question unrelated to this thread (sorry) but my drivers side cv joint is starting to click really bad. I put the car up on jackstands a few days ago and checked out both cv boots....both are fine, no cracks, or tears....could the joint just be out of lube? would lubing it fix the problem, or could there be something else wrong?

I would like get really pissed about a thread hijack (okay I'm just kiddin ) but ironically my car is doing EXACTLY the same thing on the drivers CV... I haven't looked into it yet, but I've always replaced CV's when it clicks, you might be able to get away with less- but why- Raxles does CV's for like $100 with new joints and amsoil synth grease...

 

[prplhz96]

my car jumped 1 tooth, and there is small indentations on all 4 cylinders intake side of piston.
the marks are no more than 1/16" inch deep. The reason i think there is a prob., is there is no carbon buildup on the indentations, i think that these pistons have the indentations for valve clearance. My question is, what are the chances that my intake valves are bent from the impact? I know that i can remove the valves and check, but is there a way that i can check them, without dismantling this head. this is my daily driver so i need to get it on the road asap. Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Defiant]

Leakdown test, or compression test. You only need to check one cylinder.

Since you're already looking at the pistons, the head must be off. Turn it upside down, pick a cylinder with all the valves closed and pour the combustion chamber full of kerosene. Healthy valves and seats won't leak.

 

[prplhz96]

i know that this test is prolly not 100% accurate, but its right up my alley.......I am in the process now of doing it, in Your opinion, if there are no leaks, can I take that as that they are not bent and reinstall the head??? I mean this is my daily, so I just dont want to have any probs down the road...also worst case if i remove the valves how can i tell if they are bent, if they are it is not much, they still travel fine in the guides....i heard that a drill press or lathe will work, but i have only "weekend mechanic" tools?????? thanks for the help

 

[prplhz96]

well all the intake valves are bent, and i checked exhaust for shits n giggles, the first valve there leaked just a little bit, literally nothing, tomoorow i will remove the valves and replace all intakes and grind the exhausts and put it back together.

 

[defrag010]

What are you going to grind the valve faces with? Are you even going to think of putting freshly ground valves back in the head with the old non-cut seats? I hope not...

 

[prplhz96]

my cousin acyually has a valve grinder, and the head only has 400 miles on it, so fresh valves after being lapped, imo will be fine.

 

[treimche]

So I pulled the motor out of this 96 TSI AWD because it had a timing belt failure, and my friend got a complete "good" 7 bolt out of a 95 TSI, but I'm wondering if it's any good. I got the timing covers off to replace the water pump, and while I was in there, I tried to line all the timing marks up to make sure it's good to go. Well, when the cam gears are lined up, the crank pulley mark and both balance shafts were off by quite a bit. I'm wondering if the valves would be bent from the belt being off by this far, I have a pic of the crank pulley mark, but I can't upload it because it's too big (I'll get it uploaded to a server later). This is the best I could explain it, if you are looking at the crank like a clock, the timing mark is at about the 10:30 position, and the mark on the plate on the crank itself is closer to the 9:30 position. I did do a leak down test on all the cylinders, and the results are really bad. I know you're supposed to do the leakdown test when the engine is warm, but it is out of the car and not able to be warmed up at all. At 90psi, the cylinders would hold 40/30/75/20 psi, in that order from cylinders 1-4. So should the leakdown results be that bad because of a cold engine? Or is it time for yet another motor?

 

[RoasT BeeF]

The balance shaft marks being off wont bend valve, just cause vibration. About how many teeth is it off at the crank?

 

[treimche]

Well here's the pic that I took of the crank timing marks when the cam gears are lined up.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I also did a compression check today, and the results were 145/155/175/145.

 

[ryanxiii]

Does anyone remember what damage hapens to an engine/valves when cranked manualy counterclockwise instead of clockwise? I spaced while checking to see if my 95 Tsi FWD was out of phase on the balance shaft.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

It IS possible to have the belt skip or for the car to get out of time if you rotate the engine counterclockwise. The manual specifically states NOT to do this. Go over it again, make sure the car is still in time before you fire it up. And rotate it CLOCKWISE this time.

 

[ryanxiii]

I caught the mistake before I fired up the car. All timing marks seem to be in the right places and none of the belts skipped. I was going to replace the timing belt, balance shaft belt and the waterpump but all the belts look like they were replaced before I bought the car. I will double check all the timing marks before restarting the car.

Later,
Ryan 95 Tsi FWD A/T
Las Vegas