Timing belts

[defbear]

Does anyone know the quailty of NAPA's timing/balance shaft belts?? What are the best ones to buy and where can you get them?

 

[a5ian5murf]

personally, i like mitsubishi's belts... get em' from your dealer.

 

[steve]

Or save a few bucks and buy all the parts that need to be replaced when you change the belt from Conicelli or one of the other online dealers. At least make a list of all the parts and what you can get them for and use that to get a better price from your dealer. I don't mind paying a few percent more to keep them happy to see me when I'd looking for free advice or quality service when I'm too lazy to do it myself.

It's not quite as simple as just replacing the belt if you really want it to last. The Timing Belt VFAQ's will tell you the normal things that have to be replaced but you still need to inspect the rest of the front side while your there to avoid doing it again. For example; I discovered the the tensioner arm wears in two places that need to be checked. A dimple forms where the tensioner rod contacts the arm and the shaft the arm pivots on wears from the side load generated from tensioning the belt. The dimple can be fixed easily by welding but the shaft wear means a new drivers side mount unless you have a press and a lathe. Many 1Gs are going to be needing cam, balance shaft, crank and oil pump seals in addition to the new waterpump listed in the VFAQ. Some people are going to need a new oil pump and that really adds to the time and cost.

If your not doing the work yourself make sure your mechanic really understands the car and how it ages.

Steve

 

[defbear]

Thanks alot for the info steve. As far as the oil pump goes, how do you tell if its bad? And can the A/C belt and the alternator belt be changed without removing the mount and other parts that are kinda in the way?

 

[-=TWITCH=-]

dont go cheap on the timming belt get a OEM (factory) belts

 

[steve]

You can change the AC belt without removing the bracket but it can be a pain breaking the AC belt tensioner bolt loose to untension the belt but you can't take the timing belt cover off without removing it. You really can get much leverage on this because of where it is. I have to take the bracket off to get it loose in the vise.
The belt that drives the water pump and alternator just needs the alternator loosened up (both the top and bottom bolts and back off the tensioner bolt until you can slip the bolt up out of it's bracket and push the alternator towards the block to get the belt off. The power steering belt comes off last and goes on first (or second after the AC). Three bolts, two in front of the ps pump through the pulley and one in the rear.

The only sure fire way to check the oil pump if it's not displaying signs of being bad (like low oil pressure, leaking, or nasty noises is to take it apart and inspect the clearances and wear. Doing it is a pain in the rear. You have to drop the drivers side crossmember, downpipe, transfer case on AWD's, and oil pan to unbolt the pickup from the pump so you can take the front cover off the engine and take the oil pump apart. Pulling the front cover requires unbolting both balance shafts (need special tool to get at lower BS bolt behind plug) and having the timing belt and crank pulleys off, removing the oil filter adaptor and draining both the oil and coolant. It was fun...

The other big fun part of working on the timing belt is getting the lower belt cover off and on.

Here's a list of what parts I needed for my '91 GSX:
MD326059 BELT,VALVE TIMING $56.98
MD182295 BELT,BALANCER TIMING $21.08
MD156604 PULLEY,TIMING BELT IDLER $24.58
MD129355 PULLEY,TIMING BELT TENSIONER $20.12 Wound up being extra because it's included in bracket asmbly.
MD164533 ADJUSTER,TIMING BELT TENSIONER $61.07
MD195094 BRACKET, TENSIONER ARM, AND PULLEY $59.34
MD115976 TENSIONER,BALANCER TIMING BELT $20.83
MD972052 WATER PUMP KIT $78.89
MD186126 BELT,ALTERNATOR & OTHERS 990 $12.28
MD178430 BELT,P/S 660 $7.42
MB568898 BELT,A/C 940 $17.38
MD006665 GASKET,TIMING BELT COVER $1.82
MD156770 GASKET,TIMING BELT COVER $0.88
MD121986 GASKET,TIMING BELT COVER $3.71
MD372536 OIL SEAL CAMSHAFT 2@ $6.22 $12.44
MD149393 GASKET, ENG FR CASE $7.33
MD175762 FRONT CASE ASSEMBLY $167.41
MD174581 GEAR, ENGINE OIL PUMP $42.20
MD174582 GEAR, ENGINE OIL PUMP $21.34
MD041021 O-RING, ENG FR CASE $1.39
MD125376 PLUG, ENG FR CASE $3.00
MD149370 GASKET, OIL FILTER ADAPTOR $1.62
MD376608 PULLEY. CRANKSHAFT $97.46 Mine was starting to seperate.
ULTRAGRAY GASKET MAKER $4.99
LOCKTITE RED SEALER $3.23
LOCKTITE BLUE SEALER $3.23

Steve

 

[defbear]

Awesome. Now I dont have to look up all the part numbers. Thank you steve.

 

[a5ian5murf]

geez, that's hella parts!

 

[steve]

Thats just what it needed as I worked through the timing belt replacement and a more realistic list of what should or might need replacing on older 1G than what's in the VFAQ.
I could have skimped in a few areas since there was no sign of leaking from the water pump and I didn't find any sigificant wearing in the old oil pump but who knows if either would have lasted another 60k. You can actually save a few bucks if you do the BS removal at the same time since the onlt additional part is the oil pump shaft ($8.91) then you can forget all the BS belts and pulleys. The parts were cheap insurance when you figure out what it would cost to go back in again or what it costs if the belt lets go. Oh, and that actually was just about half of my last part order. After 11 years and 110k of me beating on the car things were starting to wear out.

Steve

 

[defbear]

Can you do the BS removal without taking the motor out of the car?

 

[steve]

You can either do the getto version like I did where you pull the lower BS out and leave the upper in but disconnected or you can follow the VFAQ and lower your engine on the cross member until you can get the upper BS out. That looked like too much work to lower it and to pull the bearings, so I wimped out.
You still have to let the engine hang down after removing the DS mount to clear the lower BS unless you have the tool to remove the cover plug and unbolt the BS from the oil pump, remove the front cover and then pull the lower BS.

I wound up having to make the special tool to torque the plug out of 1.25" thick wall copper water pipe after I had the old cover out. I couldn't tighten the new plug and o-ring in the new cover without it. It took me about an hour with my dremel to cut and fit all six teeth not just two apposing ones since I wasn't sure how strong the copper was going to be. I also had to make a tool for applying tension on the tensioner pulley out of 1/2" wide .048 brass strip and two 4-40 bolts to fit the holes on the pulley and the big steel bar to hold the crank for tighening the crank nut per the VFAQ and some head scratching. I borrowed a tensioner adjustment bolt from a friend but I'll make one for me the next time I have access to a metal lathe. I can't find long 8mmX1.25 bolts or threaded rod locally and I don't want to tap my battery bolt.

Steve
(is this still newbie subject matter?)

 

[steve]

Originally posted by steve


MD156604 PULLEY,TIMING BELT IDLER $24.58
MD129355 PULLEY,TIMING BELT TENSIONER $20.12 Wound up being extra because it's included in bracket asmbly.
MD195094 BRACKET, TENSIONER ARM, AND PULLEY $59.34

As proof that people do search, I got asked about this post and in the process of responding I discovered I originally made a mistake.

The side engine mount bracket assembly with tensioner arm and pulley MD195094 included the idler pulley MD156604 not the tensioner pulley MD129355. So I wound up with an extra MD156604.

I needed the bracket assembly because at 115k the original tensioner arm pivot had worn out and no longer held the tensioner pulley square to the timing belt causing the timing belt to start walking to the back of the engine.

Steve