Small 16g question

[calcifer]

Ok, what are the minimum mod requirements to install a small 16g on a Laser AWD? I am already planning on doing the free mods k & n filter boost guage and boost controller, but would I have to do all the stage 1 mods before the turbo? I'm in no hurry to upgrade, just curious in case my stock turbo goes out, I figured I would replace it with a small 16g. So what else would I need? Full exhaust job? I don't really want to heavily mod the car, maybe just about 250 hp total or so. Thanks

 

[cuttheduck]

If you have a boost gauge, boost controller,filter, you would be okay if you keep the boost down. Probaly a catback exhaust and test pipe/hf cat would be very benecial also, to help turbo spool and make the car "more streetable" . IF you wannna turn up boost then fuel pump and injectors would be the next mod though w/ good tuning there not needed for quite a while either.

 

[blMuskrat]

From my understanding (not experience) you can run the 16g with a completely stock setup and be fine. You will see small gains because it will be pushing more air at the same boost. If you want to up the boost however, you'll need to rewire the fuel pump (or better yet, replace it with a higher flowing unit) and install larger injectors, or the car will not be able to supply enough fuel for the higher boost. A fpr is also recommended.

 

[calcifer]

About how much boost do you think? Also, with only the first mods I mentioned, how much could I up the boost on the stock turbo?

 

[cuttheduck]

On the t-25 the safe number alot of people do is 15 psi. Though alot of that is because
it just flows hot air above that. I know you're a 1g and have a 14b which is quite a bit bigger. Every car is different but I would probaly start at 12-13 psi and move up while tuning w/ a air/fuel ,EGT ,pocketlogger or any combination of tuning tools you have. If you dont have anything to tell you knock count like a pocketlogger then I wouldn't push your boost up until you know for certain what your engine is doing. Though on a race I might risk higher boost then what I shiould run but im a lil reckless so your milage may vary. Hopefully someone w/ longer experince on 1gs will give you a better answer. I havent tuned our 1g project car yet, or running for that matter.

 

[blMuskrat]

Again, this isn't from expirience, but I'd say 15 psi would probably be the max, and even then I'd rewire the fuel pump to be safe (it's like a $10 mod, just need to buy the larger gauge wire)

 

[calcifer]

Thanks for all the help guys. One more question, if you don't mind. Do you think I will be close to 250 hp with just the mods I mentioned and increasing boost, or will I have to proceed further down the stage 1 road? Thanks again

 

[blMuskrat]

No. You wont be making any more subtansial hp until you can get a less restrictive exhaust in the car, and do the fuel mods to safely turn the boost up.

 

[calcifer]

Alright, I guess maybe I will mess with the exhaust then. Thanks for everyone's help, I really appreciate it!

 

[TheTSiGuy]

If you're talking about 250 whp, you've got a long way to go.

If you're talking about 250 bhp, then you can just add a K&N filter, a manual boost controller, and an exhaust. Instant low 14 timeslips.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Not trying to take the thread over but, I know whp = hp to the wheels. But what does bhp mean? It has been bugging me for awhile now.
Thanks.
Rob.

 

[flinguist]

BHP means brake horse power, which is equivalent to the horsepower measured on a dyno, or the same thing as wheel horsepower. I think what TSIGuy meant to say was chp, or crank horsepower, which would be the power at the engine crankshaft. You lose about 20% of your chp to the drive train for FWD cars, so for 250 whp you'd have to have about 310 chp.

 

[calcifer]

How much do you horsepower do you lose for AWD?

 

[cuttheduck]

some drivetrain loss numbers i've seen before were

15% loss-FWD manual loss
22% loss- AWD manual/FWD automatic
25% loss-AWD automatic

these arent 100% right in every case for DSM's but i rough guide I was told.

And on brake horsepower, most sources say its pretty close to crank horsepower. Not QUITE the same, but very close. There is quite alot of different answers. The Probelm is that there are many different ways too measure horsepower and standards. Do you just measure the engine output w/out power robbing accessories (water pump, alternator), Exhaust restrictions etc??? Many times that is why there are variations between cars realeased here and overseas. Many times it can be explained by the way they were measured and the units they were measured in. Though it doesn't apply to the obvious situations such as emission standard differences. So BHP = CHP in pratical terms.

 

[DSMNightmare]

All those aproximate numbers are right except the FWD. It's more like 17% on a FWD stick. If you want an idea of a good upgrade path for the small 16G look at NewB2DSM. He was making around 290hp to the wheels with all the mods he has listed except the FMIC. He added that later and got just over 300hp. You can easily clear 250whp with the 16G but your going to need to be willing to spend the money on the mods and the dyno time. Believe me if you have the money dyno time is def worth it. Most the guys I see gain an average of 20-30hp just by getting thier cars tuned right.

 

[calcifer]

Ok, it doesn't look like he has spent billions of dollars on his mods, maybe I'll go that route. Does anyone know of some good shops in St.Louis?

 

[DSMNightmare]

OH thats badass. Me and NewB2DSM are both from STL. If you want some good local advice go to gateway.dsm.org. I'll be more than glad to help you and there are a lot of cool members.

In the St Louis area I would only buy DSM parts from one or two shops. The one I'll recommend the most is Speed Design which is in Godfrey IL but these guys know thier shit when it comes to DSMs. They are the ones who manufacture my 4-spider diff that's in my car. If you need service done to your DSM they can do it as well. Here is thier number (618) 467-3252. Tell them I sent you

 

[calcifer]

Cool, thanks alot. I'll have to check them out.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

Thanks for answering my question !

 

[CowPimp]

If you only want 250BHP, then don't waste your money on a 16G. The 14B can make about 300BHP (Equivalent to about 240-245WHP in an AWD). All you will need is an intake, filter, full exhaust, MBC, and possibly a fuel pump. Turn the boost up a few pounds and you have yourself 250BHP, possibly more.

 

[blMuskrat]

BHP means brake horse power, which is equivalent to the horsepower measured on a dyno, or the same thing as wheel horsepower. I think what TSIGuy meant to say was chp, or crank horsepower, which would be the power at the engine crankshaft. You lose about 20% of your chp to the drive train for FWD cars, so for 250 whp you'd have to have about 310 chp.

sorry to bring up an old topic, but i thought bhp was base horsepower, ie crank horsepower

 

[flinguist]

I looked it up in a dictionary and here's what it stated:" The useful horsepower of an engine, usually determined from the force exerted on a dynamometer connnected to the engine's drive shaft." So I guess I stand corrected. BHP is pretty much the same as CHP.

 

[calcifer]

Actually I was just wondering about the 16g for when my 14b dies. I have been looking around and I can't find any new 14bs, so I figured rather than get a used 14b, I would just get a 16g. Hopefully replacing the turbo will be way down the line.

 

[DSMNightmare]

If your going 16G you might as well consider a EVOIII 16G. A lot of people are having good results with it.