Tein flex spring rates changes

[Dallas J]

Im trying to decide on the coilover setup to get. I know the Flex's havent been proven, but they have only had good reviews so they cant be that bad .

The only problem Im seeing is the spring rates seem to be maybe for a FWD not an AWD. 560 front and 340 rear. Ive seen that alot of the people with GCs run 550/450. That would seem like a more logical rate to use on the Flex's also. Opinions? Go ahead, make em' blunt

Also anyone know where to buy them with the spring rate that I want like GC does, or will I have to buy the set and buy new springs.

Thanks.
-Dallas J

 

[jtmcinder]

Tein shocks are supposedly good for a range of spring rates around the base rate. I've seen a table (somewhere) that gives the plus or minus values for each level of Tein. You want to find this table and see if the rears can handle 450. Then find a vendor that you sell you the set-up with the rates that you want.

- Jtoby

ps. it's more important that the rear rates be high on a FWD than on a AWD, so your guess as to why the base rates are 560/340 can't be correct. I agree, though, that these rates are crazy.

 

[igs]

Originally posted by Dallas J
I know the Flex's havent been proven

What do you mean by that?

 

[jim97gst]

I've been told by Tein that you can go +/-2 kg/mm with the spring rate without revalving the shocks, although they recommend revalving. Springs are about $50 each. Revalving is $100 per shock.

 

[Dallas J]

by the Teins arent proven thing, I mean that no one has used them in auto-x to a good level. Well, if they have no ones reported it.

The chart is on Tein's web site. For 95-99 DSM AWD it says +4 to -2 in the front and +2 to -2 in the rear. I was thinking about +2 in the rear so I should have been fine.

I was thinking the spring rate in the rear was for a FWD cause its lighter. I know that they tend to have a higher rate to help the car rotate, but for a street ride it might be lower to keep it semi soft.

I asked on the yahoo auto-x group and Charles Moss replied with:

I had the opportunity to examine a set of Teins recently. They appeared
to me to
have little to no effective front travel. The Top hat design put the
bumpstop
even lower than the OEM part, and whilst it does have a spherical
bearing for
the shaft, the spring seats on the top hat, there's no separate seat to
move
with the shaft. Based on what I saw, I'm not sure at all I would put
them on a
2G


-Dallas J

 

[jtmcinder]

Originally posted by Dallas J
by the Teins arent proven thing, I mean that no one has used them in auto-x to a good level.

I thought that the Evo that came in second in ESP at Nationals was on Teins. I know that there are a bunch of WRXs running national-level events in STX on Teins. Of course, both Evos and WRXs are struts and the struts version doesn't have the same travel issues as the set-ups for double-wishbone.

- Jtoby

 

[hoffman]

So let me get this right. Tein has a spherical bearing, but not in the upper hat? If it is, why is there a mounting spring above it?

That is probably the biggest problem with our 2g front suspensions. But now your going to pay extra money for a fouled design? The option is still either to build a nice setup (even with FNR or Moris upper hats) and still come out cheaper than Tein.

Wait til we both get home and drvie mine. I'll even let you pilot a run at an event. But see if you like the set up first.

Right now I need to finish preping the inside (Rollcage, battery location, seats, etc), then its off to get corner weighted and readjust the spring rates.

 

[Dallas J]

Yeah, Ill definately have to go for a ride in your car Art before I make my decision.
But for the FNR hats its $150 per corner. In that case I might as well just get JIC's. I might just end up using koni/gc's with the GC hat. I know everyone is saying its bad now, but it has been used for years with sucess.

-Dallas J

 

[hoffman]

Your on.

If DG can't get enough interest in the FNR hats then the only other choice will be Moris ($200ea ). I would rather pay the price to correct a potential problem (same as getting an AFPR when you get a Walbro) then save the money and something fail which costs more (blown seals, bent shock rods) in the long run.

That whole "mod it right the first time" rule

 

[igs]

Originally posted by hoffman
So let me get this right. Tein has a spherical bearing, but not in the upper hat? If it is, why is there a mounting spring above it?

???? I have Teins and that's where the ball is, where else would it be???

 

[96'GSspyder]

"had the opportunity to examine a set of Teins recently. They appeared
to me to
have little to no effective front travel. The Top hat design put the
bumpstop
even lower than the OEM part, and whilst it does have a spherical
bearing for
the shaft, the spring seats on the top hat, there's no separate seat to
move
with the shaft. Based on what I saw, I'm not sure at all I would put
them on a
2G"

was that the type flex that he tested? I have ttrouble beliving that teins are no good for our cars....maybe I'm just not understanding?? I was under the impression that this was the best suspension set up possible for the 2G..and for 2,000 with teh EDFC it damn well better be

 

[hoffman]

Ok, I miss read that last statement.

So he thinks the problem lies in that the spring doesn't move with the shock rod. The problem was without the spherical bearing the spring would move during steering and stress the shock rod. With the bearing the rod can now move with the spring.

If Tein also moves the bumpstop lower, and they have designed and valved their shocks for this, then you would get more travel. But then again, a smart owner would not drop his car so low that he rides the bumpstops anyway.

The more I read up Tein does not sound like a bad choice and would fit into the same class as Koni/GC. It only costs a few hundred more than the already proven Koni/GC suspensions. I would try Tein for a semi-serious road race/autox car only after I had my car cornerwieghted to insure I purchased the proper springs rates the first time. The EDFC would be a fine waste of money for people that are too lazy to open their hood/hatch after a run and readjust the damping.

But, Tein is not the best suspension on the market. Moris or Bilstein/Shocktec happen to be the best.

 

[Dallas J]

Originally posted by hoffman
The EDFC would be a fine waste of money for people that are too lazy to open their hood/hatch after a run and readjust the damping.

But, Tein is not the best suspension on the market. Moris or Bilstein/Shocktec happen to be the best.

Agree'd on both accounts.

But back to my other question. Does anyone know who might be able to sell them with my specified springs rates?
I would call around to shops, but its hard to do from Iraq.

-Dallas J

 

[jim97gst]

I would email Tein and find out if they will even sell them to Vendors with different rates. I'm willing to bet that they won't. Maybe you could get the set directly from Tein if you want custom rates, but then thay may charge you MSRP. In that case, you would be better off buying the regular set from someone selling them under MSRP and spend another $100 on new rear springs and still be under MSRP (assuming you're not going more than +2 kg/mm and are not going to worry about revalving the shocks).

I think that the majority of Eclipse/Tein owners right now are interested in having height adjustability and a decent ride, not in swapping out spring rates for an optimal track setup. There would have to be a pretty big market in order for a shop to carry all the Tein pieces to put together different spring rates/shock valving for different customers.

 

[Dallas J]

I agree, it seems that the Tein owners are interested more in street capability and the EFDC that competitive racing.

For the GC/Koni/Front FNR upper mounts its about the same total price as the Teins. Then I gotta get the spring rate that I want which will add another $100.

Right now its looking towards me just getting the proven GC/Koni set up.

Thanks.
-Dallas J

 

[jim97gst]

GC coilovers - $400
4 Koni yellows - $600
4 FNR upper mounts - $600

total - $1600

You said earlier that you might as well go with JICs versus this. You can get JICs custom setup from RRE for $1800. I think at this point it's a matter of whether you want someone else doing the work for you (assuming you trust RRE) or if you want to play around with the rates and setup everything yourself. But changing out the springs/getting alignments a few times can add up to $200 easily, where as an RRE setup probably has a pretty good chance of being what you want the first time around.

 

[jtmcinder]

Originally posted by jim97gst
4 FNR upper mounts - $600

Please provide details on these. Or a URL. Thanks.

- Jtoby

 

[jim97gst]

Please provide details on these. Or a URL. Thanks.

Jtoby I'm suprised you don't know about these. I see you on the dsm autocross board all the time. Or did you want it for everyone else's benefit?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-autox/message/11737

I guess it's not a sure thing. DG needs so many people to pre-buy to make them at a reasonable price.

 

[hoffman]

But you only really need the front hats. The backs are "nice to haves".

Dallas and i did the math already. And its only $200 cheaper for koni/gc or the teins.

Dallas go ahead and but the tein setup, and then let me try them out