Your opinions of this setup...

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Ok what do you guys think of this setup on a 95 gst:

KYB adjustable struts/shocks
Eibach sportline springs
235 45 z,w or v 17 rubber
front and rear strut bars
rear lower tie bar

I think itll handle/grip like a demon what do you think?

Andrew

 

[silvereclipse]

That sounds like a pretty nice set-up. Just remember to find some 7.5 inch wide wheels or 225 tires with 7.0 inch. I Love my KYB AGX shocks, a lot of people used to say they have problems on 2g's but they have worked great for auto-x and street. I have pro-kit springs, sportline is probably a little too low for me but eibach is great. One con though is KYB won't warranty those shocks with more than a 1.5 inch drop and sportlines are 1.7 inches last i checked. I'm sure they would hold up though. Also don't forget to get a good alignment, that is almost as important(sometimes more) than tires. The strut bars and tie bar don't do a whole lot for our cars,(but they look nice!) partially because we don't have macpherson strut suspesion, but they would tighten up some creaks. A rear adjustable sway bar from suspension techniques would be a much more effective mod for about the same money....And yes it would grip like hell

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

I was thinking of getteing 225 instead of 235 so I can get the wheel I want rather than settling for 16*8 cobra wheel, I mean they look nice but I really want 7 spoke wheels in gunmetal(I have for years so I know they will be the real deal). I am sure 225vs 235 wont make too much of a difference and 225 will fit on 17*7 really nice.
Andrew

 

[jtmcinder]

To answer the thread-starter's question: no, I think it will understeer like a pig. Way too low for those shocks.

To address another idea that came up ... strut-tower braces can help cars with double-wishbone just as much as they can help cars with struts. The purpose of these braces is to keep the upper pick-up points from moving. And all suspensions have upper pick-up points, so all cars might benefit from braces. The issue is whether the places on the chassis that hold the upper pick-up points are strong or weak. On a 2G, you will get a benefit from front STBs; you might reduce the hatch-rattle with a rear STB.

Finally, let's not take suspension data from 1Gs and apply them to 2Gs, OK?

- Jtoby

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

Originally posted by jtmcinder
To answer the thread-starter's question: no, I think it will understeer like a pig. Way too low for those shocks.

To address another idea that came up ... strut-tower braces can help cars with double-wishbone just as much as they can help cars with struts. The purpose of these braces is to keep the upper pick-up points from moving. And all suspensions have upper pick-up points, so all cars might benefit from braces. The issue is whether the places on the chassis that hold the upper pick-up points are strong or weak. On a 2G, you will get a benefit from front STBs; you might reduce the hatch-rattle with a rear STB.

Finally, let's not take suspension data from 1Gs and apply them to 2Gs, OK?

- Jtoby

I forgot to mention that I was getting a suspension techniques sway bar set. Why do you think it would understeer like a pig? If anything it should grip and should handle very well, please explain why you think it would understeer.
Andrew

 

[jtmcinder]

Why will KYBs and Sportlines understeer? Because you will have almost no front suspension travel. KYBs are longer than stock shocks. Sportlines lower the car close to 2". So, even if you trim the bumpstops, you will be all over the front bumpstops in hard corners. When you're on the bumpstops, the front spring-rates effectively shoot way up. This means that most weight transfers at the front, which will ask much too much of the outside front tire and you will not turn.

If you're getting new swaybars, then you can reduce this problem to some extent by only installing the rear one. But this is putting a band-aid on a gushing wound. What you'll now have is a car that oversteers at first (because most weight transfers at the rear) and then suddenly switches to understeer (when you run out of front suspension travel). This is just about the worst thing in a 2G, because we often have low-speed terminal understeer and high-speed oversteer, and this is exactly what you are dialing in more of.

We have a front heavy car. You have to focus on front-tire grip to get these pigs to turn. So you want front springs and swaybars that are relatively soft (in comparison with the rear). So, if you are not willing to run rear springs in the 450+ range, you have to keep the front soft. But if the front is soft, there will be some body roll. So you need suspension travel. So you can't slam the car. And Sportlines are darned low.

If you had said Prokits, I wouldn't have been so negative, since these aren't as low. If you have said Konis, I, again, wouldn't have been so negative, since these are shorter than stock shocks. (Note how both of these changes in your plan have the same net effect: more front suspension travel before you hit the bumpstops.)

- Jtoby

 

[onepimpclipse]

Originally posted by jtmcinder

If you had said Prokits, I wouldn't have been so negative, since these aren't as low. If you have said Konis, I, again, wouldn't have been so negative, since these are shorter than stock shocks. (Note how both of these changes in your plan have the same net effect: more front suspension travel before you hit the bumpstops.)

- Jtoby

This is what I was thinking. Prokits and different shocks such as Konis.



Off topic but, jtmcinder I've seen quite a few of your posts since you recently joined us and I must say you damn sure know your stuff.

 

[jtmcinder]

Thanks. I kind of blew it a few times at first, getting into arguments with people who are more interested in appearance, but I think I've gotten better at identifying the threads where people want to talk pure performance. I've spent a lot of time getting to understand how suspensions work, in general, and the good, bad, and ugly of 2Gs, in particular, and I love babbling on the 'net, so here I am. Thanks for making me feel welcome.

- Jtoby

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

See thew only reason I doubt you on the height is because the difference btwn sportlines and pro kit is about .3in. Now I know for a fact that that wont make too much if any difference, but I do know about the spring rate being different. Well I hear alot of horror stories of people saying their dsms handle like sjit but my car has never understeered(except the first day I bout the car and boosted in the rain) and over steer is just right, and let me tell you I have put the car through some serious turns for what it is now.

Unfourtunatly the suspension is getting really sloppy so I believe adding tons of grip and lower the center of gravity will do miracles for my handling, and maybe a little understeer MAY be a problem(Im not calling you out or anything) but if my car handles unlike all dsm's Ive heard of then I think Ill be alright.

What are the spring rates for sportlines vs prokit?

Andrew

 

[silvereclipse]

jtmcinder is right about the suspension travel. More travel(to an extent) is better for performance, especially on real world roads/tracks. The less travel you have, the less time your tires are in contact with the road when they come to an irregularity in the road surface. If track/road is perfectly smooth(quite rare) then a little less travel/super high spring rates can work very well. I think sportlines would be the limit as far as the drop goes, and would not handle as well as a different set up with more travel and different spring rates.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

I wasnt disagreeing with him, I was merely saying 1.3in drop vs a 1.6 isnt too much.
Andrew

 

[cait sith]

In all honesty, I'd skip springs all together and get a sleeved GC setup if you really have a budget. Consider getting upper plates too if you're actually looking for handling.

Any sort of "lowering springs" are crap for performance.

 

[jtmcinder]

Assuming the same shocks, the difference between ProKits and Sportlines is .5", not .3". To be blunt, neither has the rate necessary for the amount of lowering, but ProKits come closer than do Sportlines. Progressive springs are also more of a street thing than a race thing, IMO, but that's another story.

- Jtoby

 

[leet]

You all should take heed to JTM and Cait's advice.