Front toe adjustment problem - tie rod too long?

[turbosax2]

I did an alignment on my car yesterday and ran into an interesting problem.

Some history:
I replaced quite a few components in the front end of my car a couple years ago, including the inner and outer tie rods. Inners came from MachV and outers were OEM. I did my own alignment then with string and jack stands and all was well. Because I had the power steering rack out, I paid special attention to make sure the steering wheel was centered, and the tie rods had about the same amount of adjustment on either side.

Forward to yesterday:
I put a whole slew of new suspension components on and did an alignment on the car again with SmartStrings. The car hasn't been driven much over the past couple years and all the tire rods looked in excellent shape. The front was lowered a bit (~14" from center of wheel to fender) and the camber was set to -2.5*. The first time I tried to adjust the front toe I got:
Left: 0* (but could adjust down to -0.5* if maxed out)
Right: +0.8* (maxed out)

After bashing my head against the wall quite a bit, I decided to check to verify the steering wheel was centered in it's throw. Using an angle gauge, we found that it was slightly off by one spline. So we adjusted that to get it perfect. Then, trying to adjust toe again:
Left: +0.1* (maxed out)
Right: +0.1* (maxed out)

In spec, but I can't get zero or negative toe.

So...the only thing I can think of is that the inner tie rods are too long! I took an outer tie rod off and verified the threads go the whole way into it, so I couldn't tap any more. So besides cutting the inner tie rods shorter, I'm stumped. Perhaps the ones I got are actually longer than OEM ones. If anybody has OEM ones laying around, I think I have another new set of the MachV ones here we could compare.

 

[96 420a-t]

Try reducing your negative camber a small amount. If you move your upper pivot point out it should cause your toe to move outwards.

 

[snowborder714]

He'd like to run that amount of camber in the front, so we'd like to just focus on the tie rod. We know if we reduce camber or adjust ride height, we can gain that back.


Weren't the MachV ones marketed as OEM units when we bought them (link says otherwise now)?

 

[turbosax2]

Weren't the MachV ones marketed as OEM units when we bought them (link says otherwise now)?

That's correct. They only updated that to say non-OEM after we pointed it out. Although they do have a sticker with the OEM part number of MB949343 on them, they are branded as Beck/Arnley and I remember them being slightly different than the OEM ones, although in what regards I can't remember.

 

[turbosax2]

Any more ideas on this issue? Or if anyone has an OEM inner tie rod lying around they could measure, that would be great.

 

[99gst_racer]

I got a rack on my bench right now. Let me know exactly where to measure to and from on the tie rod.

 

[turbosax2]

1. Entire length of tie rod (if you don't mind removing it from the rack)
2. Length from end of tie rod to the beginning of the threads that go into rack

 

[yhype]

You have them maxed out because of your -2.5* camber, If your dead set on having that much camber your going to have to modify the tie rods if you want more adjustability.

 

[turbosax2]

My brother had that much camber at a lower height and the toe was still adjustable. That's why I am questioning the tie rods themselves.

 

[yhype]

From my experience with aftermarket tie rods as a whole, is that they are hardly ever the same as the OEM ones.

 

[snowborder714]

Hence why we're trying to get measurements

 

[yhype]

Who cares, they not working, modify them and adjust them and problem is solved.

 

[turbosax2]

Who cares,

Me..

 

[99gst_racer]

Let me know if I missed anything.


A = 2.900"
B = 1.450"
C = 3.650"

 

[turbosax2]

Thanks Paul, but I need the inner

 

[snowborder714]

Who cares, they not working, modify them and adjust them and problem is solved.

It would also be good to know length comparisons for anyone else who runs into this issue in the future. This way we can figure out the max camber someone can run on stock inner tie rods vs. aftermarket ones while still allowing you to zero out front toe.

But obviously Eric wouldn't be asking if he didn't care...

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks Paul, but I need the inner

Crap! OK, I'll get those measurements this afternoon.

 

[turbosax2]

I appreciate it! I'll be able to compare in a couple weeks then.

 

[99gst_racer]

No problem. I've actually never removed an inner tire rod before. I assume once I remove the boot it will be obvious how it comes apart?

 

[turbosax2]

Ya, pretty much, but here's a how-to anyway.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...22278-inner-tie-rod-end-replacement-itre.html

 

[99gst_racer]

Hopefully I got it this time.

A = 10.00"
B = 9.250
C = 1.800"

 

[turbosax2]

Perfect, I'll compare next time I'm home.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Just for reference, I've had both inners and outers that were parts store replacements and they were different lengths, or at least threaded lengths. I can recall thread counting to find myself no where near close to where I was supposed to be. Too much toe out.
It's also why I have 7 different sizes of slave cylinder rod, all "stock".

 

[turbosax2]

Good to know. The outer is OEM and there are enough threads on the inner to fully bottom out inside the outer, so the threads aren't the issue. It has to be an overall length issue, or me being dumb. I would say one is just as possible as the other

 

[turbosax2]

Inner tie rod from Mach V:
A: 10"
B: 9.25"
C: 2"

So the aftermarket tie rod isn't the issue...odd.

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