super spindles to fit 9-10inch rims on a 2g

[turbo addict]

does anyone remember these?? was there something wrong with that idea? why has none of the other vendors made these? I would buy a set. These were redesigned knuckles for a 2g that took the arm all the way back next to the shock so that you can fit 9 to 10inch rims and still fit them under the fenders.
Somebody make these damn it!

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

umm....because you can already put 9" rims on a 2g easily?

 

[Scrymerr]

umm....because you can already put 9" rims on a 2g easily?

Right. If by 'fits easily' you mean the wheel protrudes about 1/4" out from the vehicle and eliminates any chance of the wheels being able to tuck.

To respond to the original post, I think it would be a good idea as well. I would like to be able to maintain my tire and wheel size without having them stick out. I have never heard of them before though.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

Why would you want them to tuck? If it's just for show, then fine. But if you want the car to handle, you wouldn't want to drop it that low. Offset + camber are your friend. If you want to tuck just run stretched tires.

 

[Scrymerr]

Why would you want them to tuck? If it's just for show, then fine. But if you want the car to handle, you wouldn't want to drop it that low. Offset + camber are your friend. If you want to tuck just run stretched tires.

Even with my relatively high springrates, and high rideheight, the tires still make minimal contact with fenders under full compression. The rim I selected has the largest offset possible, so moving the wheel inward is not an option. My car sits too high, and I would like to lower it more, however unless I dramatically stiffen up the suspension I will not be able to do while keeping my wheel setup. In other words, the reason I am interested in aftermarket spindles is to be able to run my relatively wide wheels and lower the car without having to make things really stiff or reduce suspension travel. Aftermarket spindles will help people like me avoid having to make sacrifices when running such wheels: decent springrates, large wheels, adequate suspension travel, acceptable ride height.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

I run 17x9 +40 on my 1g, which does stick out. But I have no issues with it. Not to be so nit-picky, but Tein Basics are not relatively high spring rates, they are pretty soft IMO.

I don't drive a 2g, so I guess I don't appreciate this thread as much as others would. I don't want to start a fight or anything, especially with you being from norcal as well. I guess just from speaking with other people that road race their 2g dsms, they don't really seem to have this issue.

 

[1512gvr4]

Even with my relatively high springrates, and high rideheight, the tires still make minimal contact with fenders under full compression. The rim I selected has the largest offset possible, so moving the wheel inward is not an option. My car sits too high, and I would like to lower it more, however unless I dramatically stiffen up the suspension I will not be able to do while keeping my wheel setup. In other words, the reason I am interested in aftermarket spindles is to be able to run my relatively wide wheels and lower the car without having to make things really stiff or reduce suspension travel. Aftermarket spindles will help people like me avoid having to make sacrifices when running such wheels: decent springrates, large wheels, adequate suspension travel, acceptable ride height.

so technically, the problem youre facing is the fact that the wheel style you bought does not offer the correct offset for your vehicle. why dont you just buy a 9" wheel with the correct offset and call it a day?

also, camber is your friend when it comes to tucking

what are the specs on your current wheels, and what is your tire size?

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Good grief, this thread is in the handling section? WTF

Even with my relatively high springrates, and high rideheight, the tires still make minimal contact with fenders under full compression. The rim I selected has the largest offset possible, so moving the wheel inward is not an option. My car sits too high, and I would like to lower it more, however unless I dramatically stiffen up the suspension I will not be able to do while keeping my wheel setup. In other words, the reason I am interested in aftermarket spindles is to be able to run my relatively wide wheels and lower the car without having to make things really stiff or reduce suspension travel. Aftermarket spindles will help people like me avoid having to make sacrifices when running such wheels: decent springrates, large wheels, adequate suspension travel, acceptable ride height.

First of all, Tein Basics with a 9kg/6kg rate really arent very stiff if you're looking to run a non-tucking suspension setup especially with the extra weight of AWD. Something more like 12/8 is in order possibly wiht a rear anti-sway bar upgrade. As far as 2g's go (since this thread is about 2g's only), the front fender clearance isn't an issue. The fenders are just add-on pieces and can be cut/rolled or molded wider depending on your mood. The rear fitment is the real issue on a 2g. The inner suspension offers less clearance in the rear so the offset required to clear any reasonable tire size (255+ since were talking about 9"+ wheels here) will cause the wheel/tire to be pushed toward the outside and way past the "tuckable" boundary.

Just a side note - when talking about what offset is required to run what on a car, remember it's the tire width that matters, not the wheel width. A 255 on a 7, 8, or 9" rim will have similiar clearance issues and required offset will be almost the same regardless of wheel width.

The rear 2g suspension can't really be modified for clearance. Outside of running a LOT of rear camber (definitely FAR from ideal, the rear should have less camber than the front and the amount of rear camber you'll need to run wide tires and still tuck is out of the question) or running a narrow tire and stretching it (does no good), there is no way to make a wide tire setup tuck in the rear of a 2g. Because of this, you need to do everything you can to make sure the tire won't contact the fender. Besides having enough rear roll resistance (spring rates, bars, etc), the rear ride height can't be too low.

Lower the front of your car until the front lower arms are flat level (or higher) and then make the rear about a 1/2 inch higher than that. You should end up with a car that has the rear sitting maybe 1/2 inch lower than stock and the front no more than 1" lower than stock.

You shouldn't "need" to tuck your suspension if you're looking to do performance driving. Any car can be set up to run a non-tuck suspension and there aren't really any downsides. The high ride height needed to run a non-tuck setup is beneficial in other ways. Lowering your car too much completely murders the suspension geometry and will make the car handle like crap.

so technically, the problem youre facing is the fact that the wheel style you bought does not offer the correct offset for your vehicle. why dont you just buy a 9" wheel with the correct offset and call it a day?

also, camber is your friend when it comes to tucking

what are the specs on your current wheels, and what is your tire size?

There is no "correct" offset persay. It will differ between setups. A 17x9 +35 is a very good setup for a 2g and will allow a 255 width tire to fit with just barely enough inner suspension clearance to pass. Camber is NOT your friend in the REAR (which is the main issue with 2g's as stated before) when you're trying to get your car to handle. It is true though that adding camber will help you clear a wide setup but there's only so much you can do when you're running a wheel that 3" wider than stock and a 255 on a car thats only designed to run a 215.

 

[wret]

does anyone remember these?? was there something wrong with that idea? why has none of the other vendors made these? I would buy a set. These were redesigned knuckles for a 2g that took the arm all the way back next to the shock so that you can fit 9 to 10inch rims and still fit them under the fenders.
Somebody make these damn it!

It might be easier to shorten the lower control arms.

 

[Scrymerr]

so technically, the problem youre facing is the fact that the wheel style you bought does not offer the correct offset for your vehicle. why dont you just buy a 9" wheel with the correct offset and call it a day?

also, camber is your friend when it comes to tucking

what are the specs on your current wheels, and what is your tire size?

The wheel offset is maximized; any greater offset would place the wheel too far inward and contact the spindles, and possibly other suspension components.

Like the suggestions mentioned in this thread, they all involve compromise, whether it be increase the springrates, or decrease tire size. I realize that this is probably what I will have to do, but like I said before, I would like to be able to avoid this. I realize for a track only car, this is not necessary, and have seen many successful 2gs which do not tuck. I would just like to be able to reap the benefits of larger wheels/tires for track use, but keep driveability acceptable.

I also think at the current ride height I sit at (see pictures in gallery), there are some adverse affects. I am going to have a hard time with underbody aero, and I think the CM is a little higher than ideal.

 

[turbo addict]

If I remember correctly they were talking about running 285's or 295 on a 18inch rim with out any issues and without sticking out of the fenders. Now if you wanted to have them stick out alittle then you could go even bigger than that. I guess I am the only one that thought that these are cool and maybe that is why they didn't make them?? :-(
If you look at where the tire hits on the inside of the suspension it rubs on the knuckle on the upper part of the arm but the shock is a couple of inches farther back so if you could get the knuckle even with the shock it would free up space to fit the bigger wheel-tire combo. then again maybe I just have too many mkiv friends and see their cars they run huge wheel-tire combos and none of them stick out. functional or not it looks terrible

 

[Jon Lane]

To the OP's questions, the original vendor told me that these parts were suspended because of liability concerns. That said, a bunch of us would take a set. Somebody should find a good foundry and go to work on them again.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

If I remember correctly they were talking about running 285's or 295 on a 18inch rim with out any issues and without sticking out of the fenders. Now if you wanted to have them stick out alittle then you could go even bigger than that. I guess I am the only one that thought that these are cool and maybe that is why they didn't make them?? :-(
If you look at where the tire hits on the inside of the suspension it rubs on the knuckle on the upper part of the arm but the shock is a couple of inches farther back so if you could get the knuckle even with the shock it would free up space to fit the bigger wheel-tire combo. then again maybe I just have too many mkiv friends and see their cars they run huge wheel-tire combos and none of them stick out. functional or not it looks terrible

Also take into consideration that you will be changing the suspension geometry of the car. Yes, added width will help with traction, but maintaining optimal suspension geometry is more important. That is why I will admit that my setup is not idea, yes I can tuck 17x9 on my 1g, but I sacrifice handling. You'll need a lot of power to justify an 18x10 wheel.

The purpose of this should really be evaluated. Do you want the wider wheels for looks or handling. If it is handling, most people here would be fine with a 17x8.5 and 255 R-Compounds w/o changing the suspension geometry. If it is looks, camber and stretched tires will get you tucked.

 

[unlmtdndeavor]

The wheel offset is maximized; any greater offset would place the wheel too far inward and contact the spindles, and possibly other suspension components.

Like the suggestions mentioned in this thread, they all involve compromise, whether it be increase the springrates, or decrease tire size. I realize that this is probably what I will have to do, but like I said before, I would like to be able to avoid this. I realize for a track only car, this is not necessary, and have seen many successful 2gs which do not tuck. I would just like to be able to reap the benefits of larger wheels/tires for track use, but keep driveability acceptable.

I also think at the current ride height I sit at (see pictures in gallery), there are some adverse affects. I am going to have a hard time with underbody aero, and I think the CM is a little higher than ideal.

You seem to want the best of both worlds. Smooth ride height with soft spring rates and a low car that tucks along with an agressive wheel/tire combination. You speak of your car not being a track dedicated car but rather a street car, you really have no reason to worry about the underbody aero. If you want under body aero, seal it up. Go get some sheet metal, fiberglass, cf, or whatever you like and put a tray on it. And like Beau and I said earlier, you'll want much stiffer springs than what you have if you plan on tracking. And with those you can lower the car more to your liking (which again may not be ideal for racing). One more thing, if you track the car, I suggest getting a designated set of track wheels/tires. It will save you the headache of trying to make a compromise between daily driving and track.

 

[turbo addict]

Also take into consideration that you will be changing the suspension geometry of the car. Yes, added width will help with traction, but maintaining optimal suspension geometry is more important. That is why I will admit that my setup is not idea, yes I can tuck 17x9 on my 1g, but I sacrifice handling. You'll need a lot of power to justify an 18x10 wheel.

The purpose of this should really be evaluated. Do you want the wider wheels for looks or handling. If it is handling, most people here would be fine with a 17x8.5 and 255 R-Compounds w/o changing the suspension geometry. If it is looks, camber and stretched tires will get you tucked.

These are for 2g's only the suspension is completely different than a 1g!
I don't see how you are changing the geometry? this is not a 1g if you put a loop in the connection between the upper mount and the lower as long as the mounting points are the same nothing is changing. the whole point is to get more traction without making the car look stupid (aka a 4X4) or rub you can't do this now. And as for needing alot of power to need the traction. That is what am after, as I have said I have many supra friends that are making between 600whp and 1100whp I am trying to keep up with them. so the extra tire would really help! I don't want to have to run slicks on the interstate just to hook up. 4 slicks and interstate racing is just not safe!!!

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

<strike>4 slicks and </strike>interstate racing is just not safe!!!

you don't want to be banned, do you?

 

[98gsspy]

why do you loose handling with a 9" wheels, wouldn't that just get more traction?

 

[asian312]

If you are refering to unlmtdndeavor statement, it's not due to the 9" wide wheel, but how it was setup. By mounting them further inboard to avoid rubbing issues with the fenders, it affects the scrub radius. I'll let Dave do the talking (Sport Compact Car: Technobabble: September 1999)

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Wanna go fast? Don't add horsepower, add lightness!

 

[wret]

I believe the OP was referring to modifying the shape of the knuckle where it passes over the tire, not changing the mounting positions.

 

[98gsspy]

Well I want to run an 8.5" wide wheel on the track, will I be hurting my scrub radius?

 

[turbo addict]

I believe the OP was referring to modifying the shape of the knuckle where it passes over the tire, not changing the mounting positions.

YES THANK YOU!!! look at all that room!!

 

[wret]

Well I want to run an 8.5" wide wheel on the track, will I be hurting my scrub radius?

You can tick up to 9-inch width wheels and 255 width tires without modifying suspension.

 

[wret]

YES THANK YOU!!! look at all that room!!

That's the stock front suspension (which has more clearance than than the rear). Even if the knuckle was modified to allow more room, high offset wheels would be required to take advantage of the increased clearance. You would still be limited by the available offset choices of wheels. 265's might be possible with a +50mm offset but you find many wheel options with offset higher than that.

 

[98gsspy]

You can tick up to 9-inch width wheels and 255 width tires without modifying suspension.

But they will not tuck correct?