Just finished replacing all 6 control arms in the front.

[PieEyedPiper]

Where to begin..

Well for a year now I've been periodically hearing a groaning when I come to a stop. If I'm super gentle and roll nicely to that stop - no noise.

Time for the LCA recall.

Not happening. Since mitsu looked at this car in 1999-2000 when the original owner brought it in they "performed the recall" which was really just checking the boot for damage and I saw no trace of any sealant. Anyways, in their eyes the recall was done and when the parts are only $30 a piece.. I'd rather do it myself than mess with those guys.

Soon, I start buying parts. Eventually I have 2x LCA, 2x Curved/Lower Control Arms, 2x new Tie Rod assemblies, and finally the holy grail. 2x SPC Forged Aluminum Adjustable Upper Control Arms.

I went around town getting quotes from shops and dealers.'
The dealer wanted $1000 in just labor for the arms and not even getting to the tie rods.
And a couple other shops wanted ~$800 in labor to install the parts.

Well I've been needing an excuse to buy a 22mm wrench (never needed one throughout all the jobs I've performed). So I bit the bullet and installed all the arms, minus the tie rods, in an afternoon's time.

Saving money never felt so good..

I did have a few difficulties, but thanks to Strm Trpr's and SplitPi's assistance, the instructions were clear and easy to perform.


The car is going into the shop on Monday morning for the alignment and I'm just going to have them put in the tie rods while they're in there cause I'm a ####y and my body hurts

The only issue was finding the right size pickle fork. If using a pickle fork, don't expect to get your arms back in usable condition. However, there is a fancy part out there that will salvage the arms and make releasing the balljoints from the knuckle cake.

I removed the questions I had up here because they were nonsense.

 

[turbosax2]

Sorry I can't answer your questions, but once you get this all sorted out I would like to hear your opinion on the SPC control arms.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Did you happen to flip the inboard bushing while you were doing all this? As for your questions, it could be something binding after install. Other than I do not know.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I didn't have to flip the bushing, the arms arrived without any of that hassle, thankfully.
I'm not sure what would be binding. Everything is fully seated from a torque spec point of view.

Perhaps the bushings in the A-arms are too snug (65+ ft. lbs) and need to settle. I only drove the car 20 feet out of my driveway and parked it directly on the other side of the road. After all, my alignment looks like crap at the moment.

Its going into the shop on Monday, so I'll wait it out maybe and see what they have to say. I'm just worried that after all the cash in parts and all my hard work installing them (way easier than I figured though, I must admit) will go to waste. I just want everything to work properly.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Finally, I have the time to do this. Thanks turbosax2, for the friendly reminders

Now where did I leave off..

Ah yes, the alignment. I took it in and went through the instructions sheet provided by SPC, also found here Welcome to SPC Performance - Performance Suspension Tuning for Sport Compacts, Racing, Hod Rods, Muscle Cars and More!
in order to assess the shops qualifications and ability to correctly adjust these new parts.

After much assurance by the shop I went ahead and gave them my desired alignment specs.

Camber: -1.0*
Caster: Max equal positive caster
Toe : 0.0*

And here's how that turned out:

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As you can see thats not what I got. I ended up with equal caster, though surely that is not the max value. I believe 5.5* - 6.0*, in 0.25* increments, is the max but I can live with this. Camber, however, is not ideal and the shop claimed I was at the end of the adjustment range and that nothing further could be done with my equipment.

I theorized, like most camber kits, the ball joint could be flipped 180* to allow gains of negative camber, rather than gaining positive camber. I called SPC today to confirm this.

But I don't blame the shop, they just figured they knew what was up. I'll be going in for a follow-up alignment this summer after running all 6 new control arms for a while. Looks like I'll need one more washer on the Rear Right side too, see if I can get camber to match that -0.7* thats on the left.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The What: The SPC Forged Aluminum Adjustable Upper Control Arms are a pair of upper control arms that replace the original equipment with a strong, yet light-weight part that provides adjustment never before allowed on a 2g.

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The Why: These arms provide a front adjustment range of -2.50 degrees to +3.50 degrees of camber and -1.25 degrees to +1.25 degrees of caster, in 0.25* increments. This is special because not only do you get some nice adjustment in a light and very strong control arm but we see adjustment not previously available for these cars. Normally, caster is non-adjustable. '97-99 2g's will typically see +3.5* on the left and 4.5* on the right. Now you don't have to flip your inboard, driver's side compression bushing 180* to get equal caster. You can compensate for it with the arms to get equal caster. Or better yet, you replaced your compression arms with units that don't require any flipping and you can enjoy even more positive caster.

Here's a shot of the sliding mechanism that allows for camber adjustment.

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The With:
17mm wrench
14mm wrench
Metric socket set
Torque wrench (or at least a good idea of "tight" as some places are not accessible by a torque wrench).
PB Blaster
Pickle fork

The how: Installation is actually very very simple. If I recall correctly its was essentially 3 nuts. The 2 up top, inside the engine bay, hold the A-arms to the car and the other one is what anchors the balljoint to the long portion of the knuckle. Don't forget to tighten the bushing support nuts, there are two. So if you're counting we're actually up to 5 nuts that must be undone/tightened. You may need a pickle fork and some penetrating lube to break the taper of the original balljoint free from the knuckle.

More detailed information with exact torque specs are available here RRE Camber Plate Info and here Welcome to SPC Performance - Performance Suspension Tuning for Sport Compacts, Racing, Hod Rods, Muscle Cars and More!

Here is a shot showing the visible, and the invisible, nuts that attach the arms. Really not much to it.

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The Notes: It has been reported, that adjustable balljoint-type camber kits, along with the Ingalls style, will cause interference with the inner fender well thus limiting suspension travel. I was under the impression that these arms do not suffer from that, but I was wrong.
I talked to a representative of SPC today and he confirmed this for me. He offered several solutions such as a lengthier bump stop, spring spacers, using a ball-peen hammer to "massage" the fender and lastly, cutting the area out so there is no more interference. Cutting is ridiculous, as I'm sure that area is structural, and I'm not really going to fiddle around with bumpstops and spacers right now so I'll be going the hammer route. The SPC representative agreed that would be his choice, although SPC's official position is that the car ought to be run with original equipment/stock ride height to avoid this problem.

Here's a shot of some battle scars I've experienced so far. I've hit some MEAN pot holes and speed bumps so I'm confident, in my case, this is as bad as it will get. These scars are fairly minor, really. Though I will still go around tapping those spot with the BP hammer. Everyone's car is a little different and depending on how low you are you may or may not experience these symptoms. Especially with more appropriate spring rates ( Prokits FTL).

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The Notes Cont.: Also of interest is that the arms ship with the balljoint ready to give you positive camber. There is note of this in the instructions that tells you that the unit can be flipped to provide more negative camber. My alignment shop was unable to figure this out so take that into consideration when you get your alignment done at the end of this. Not all shops are going to know what to do with these arms, even if they say they do.

And about the light-weight part.. well I never weighed the OE arms vs the SPC arms but when I was cleaning up my old OE arms I did notice how light they actually were. Yes, how light the OE arms were. The SPC units are no doutb much stronger in torsional stiffness and the like and I'm confident they're much lighter than a equally strong, steel counterpart but I feel that they are indeed heavier than stock equipment.

One last bit, shoot those bushings with some silicone spray to alleviate any squeaking from the more stiff poly-bushings.

The Personal Opinion: I like 'em. The decreased travel has not been observed through daily driving nor in very spirited driving conditions, but this will vary from car to car, from setup to setup. The car feels very solid and I'm enjoying the extra caster adjustment. Are they worth damn near $500? Probably. Does a DD need them? No. Does a DSM enthusiast want them? Yes.

The Special Thanks: RRE, SPC, turbosax2, Splitpi, Strm Trpr and Jtoby.

 

[turbosax2]

How much massaging will you have to do? I take it that changing the bump stops is the most "correct" way to fix the problem?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The person I spoke to at SPC said that the correct way to do it is to raise the car.
The reason we discussed is that the bumpstop method actually involves adding to it in small increments, or if possible, start with new ones and cut them at various lengths. Then measure the travel and road test those various sizes. The ultimate goal being to find the perfect length that would maximize shock travel vs. the limitation of shock travel required to stop the arm from hitting the fender wells. The benefit is real, but your setup would have to be somewhat particular if this amount of adjustment would suit your needs.
The only solution that was guaranteed was to raise the car.

Unofficially, the representative recommended the ball-peen hammer.

As for how much massaging? Not much. I couldn't give you an exact measurement really, but some "tactical peening" might give you some measure?

 

[asian312]

Very nice writeup.

I encountered some of the same body contact, but from a performance stand point raising the car up was not the ideal solution. Running the correct spring rates with the proper length bump stops will allow you to keep the car low to take advantage of the lower CG.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Very nice writeup.

I encountered some of the same body contact, but from a performance stand point raising the car up was not the ideal solution. Running the correct spring rates with the proper length bump stops will allow you to keep the car low to take advantage of the lower CG.

Thanks! I've been itching to get something out for ages it feels like.

I agree, with performance in mind, raising the car just isn't an option especially when I'm not even slammed to begin with. So the only solutions left are fiddling with bumpstops and investing in better springs.
I know you're not at liberty to divulge much, but would you say your front spring rates are 500 or more?

My Illumina/Prokit combo just isn't cutting it. But since I don't race its hard to justify replacing them with a new setup.

For now.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Just a quick follow up.

I was rotating my tires yesterday (after waiting faaar too long) and I was giving the suspension its usual check, yank here, pull on this etc, but when I grabbed one of my tie rods I noticed that the boot was torn to all hell. Literally a 1 inch piece of it flailing about.

I called up the shop who put them in and aligned the car and the women was very nice about it. I didn't blame anyone, however, I did suggest that I was confident that an error in installation could have cause this premature and excessive failure. She gladly booked me for 9AM tomorrow morning to see whats up. If they determine that they're at faul;t they will replace the boot(s) for free. If not, well, I've not crossed that bridge yet.

I really want to get my way, so I'm being very pleasant about it.

The thing is though, I really do think they were torn or something during installation (though I really think you'd have to be very very clumbsy) because I've been periodically wiping away grease from both tie rod ends that I figured was just working its way out from being "too full" of grease. But now I realize that continuously seeping tie rod joints, leading to completely obliterated boots, is too much of a coincidence.

But maybe this is simply because I went with aftermarket tie rods?

Wll repot back after Friday's appointment.

 

[asian312]

Been tracking on my setup since March. The 150K tie rods are A-OK, but the aftermarket control arms have gone to <bleep>. The ball joints themselves are ok, but dust boots for ball joints have torn. Despite decent reviews from numerous sites, it seems there are no replacements for OEM pieces. Figure it's about time to go poly while we're at it.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

So far the OEM lateral arms are having no trouble with the boots and same goes for aftermarket compression arm boost so no worries there - yet.

However, I did hear back from the shop. They were kind of scratching their heads a bit. They're not sure how the boots on my tie rods got destroyed but they have an idea. Is it possible that from lowering the vehicle that the tie rods now articulate at a much severe angle? Mind you I'm only lowered on prokits.. but the shop does have a point. The tie rods certainly are not "level" and when you turn the wheels to the extreme left or right it looks very possible for the tie rods themselves to be eating away at the boots.

The shop says they'll replace the boots for free if I provide the boots. A fair arrangement.

But what do you guys think of that explanation? I'm having a hard time grasping the change in geometry from lowering with regards to the tie rods. The body of the tie rod joint clearly comes close to or actually does pinch the boots, but is that from lowering or perhaps mispositioned installation?

 

[TSiAWD666]

Interesting information on your clearance issues, but they contradict my experience with these pieces. I have no clearance issues with the fender well on tokico illumina shocks (which is what it looks like you have) and cut bump stops (down to only the bottom third). My spc control arms never hit my fenders anywhere.

Also, they definitely goofed your camber adjustment as I have -1.5 degrees on each side in the front right now, and can get it MUCh more negative when I'll need it in the future. You figured that out obviously from noting the position of the ball joints though. I switched mine around prior to getting the car aligned to specifically avoid an inept/confused alignment tech doing what happened with your car.

Err, pardon the late comments on your experiences but this is the first time I'd seen the thread. Good luck with the torn boots.

 

[asian312]

So far the OEM lateral arms are having no trouble with the boots and same goes for aftermarket compression arm boost so no worries there - yet.

However, I did hear back from the shop. They were kind of scratching their heads a bit. They're not sure how the boots on my tie rods got destroyed but they have an idea. Is it possible that from lowering the vehicle that the tie rods now articulate at a much severe angle? Mind you I'm only lowered on prokits.. but the shop does have a point. The tie rods certainly are not "level" and when you turn the wheels to the extreme left or right it looks very possible for the tie rods themselves to be eating away at the boots.

The shop says they'll replace the boots for free if I provide the boots. A fair arrangement.

But what do you guys think of that explanation? I'm having a hard time grasping the change in geometry from lowering with regards to the tie rods. The body of the tie rod joint clearly comes close to or actually does pinch the boots, but is that from lowering or perhaps mispositioned installation?

Guess it could be possible, but I didn't alter mine any when I had the car on H&R OE springs or the JICS. I could almost be considered 'slammed' with the JICS and haven't had any issues with the tie rods.

 

[TSiAWD666]

I can offer some anecdotal evidence regarding the tie rod ends. My car is pretty low on ground control coilovers and I've never had the tie rod end boots tear. Could be I'm lucky, could be normal... dunno which

 

[tsunari]

I've been running the SPC arms for over a year with 450lb Eibach Red Springs up front and stock Koni Yellows. The ease of adjustability is nice, but with just a 1.5" drop up front, I've lost almost 3/4" of suspension travel over the stock arms . . . I cant imagine how bad it is going lower than that.

I too have contacted SPC about the issue and they are unwilling to modify/refine their design of the arms to actually work without fitment issues. . . apparently they do not sell enough of them for it to be worthwhile. It's a shame really.

I've even gone as far as to shave excess material off of the arms in an attempt to make just enough clearance for full travel without sacrificing arm strength. I've come to the conclusion that the shape of the arm as compared to the stock arm is just too far off and there's simply not enough material to remove safely to gain the lost clearance.

In reality, there are five ways to deal with this situation, none all that great:

1) Pound out the 'cave' so the new arm has a full-range of motion

2) Get SPC to tweak/re-design the arm (not going to happen)

3) Run with spring rates no less than 500lbs up front and perhaps a ride height of no lower than 1.5" below stock

4) Go back to stock-ish ride height

5) Go back to the stock A-Arms

For those of you using these arms without any fitment issues, I'd love to hear what kind of suspension setup you're running (spring rates, ride height, etc . . .)

 

[Scott McIntyre]

I just got the SPC arms myself, but have yet to install them.

I'm my case, I'll be running 900 lbs/in springs up front with Koni Sports. I'm hoping that'll be enough to avoid contact. I'll likely massage the strut tower with a hammer for good measure when I install them, just to add some clearance for the ball joint nut.

My car see's double duty: street & competition. In competition I run 275/40R17 on 17x10 wheels, which stick out a good inch from the fender. So my suspension travel is limited by tire-to-fender interference which I expect will occur long before SPC arm-to-strut tower contact.

On the street I run more normal sized wheels & tires, which actually tuck up into the fenders like they should. So the arms could potentially hit on the street, but I'm guessing my 900 lbs/in springs will all but eliminate that possibility. Time will tell.

 

[psycho]

Just curious of your impression of 900lb springs on the street. I wanted to purchase the SPC control arms and was hoping 700lb springs would be good enough to eliminate contact.

 

[josh408]

So if I'm at stock ride height I don't need to worry about alignments?

 

[datbmac]

So if I'm at stock ride height I don't need to worry about alignments?

Unless you have any drifting left or right or any abnormal tire wear, I would just get it checked every now and then just to make sure it's within specs.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

So if I'm at stock ride height I don't need to worry about alignments?

What?

So let me get this straight, you searched up "alignment" and came across threads, this being one of them, and you figure the take home message from this one is that stock cars don't need alignments. Am I close?

At the time I made this thread I was far more green than I am today, and that's pretty much the reason I'll save you from answering the rhetorical question above.

Pretty much every car on the road today comes from the factory with equipment to adjust the vehicles wheel alignment. The alignment is important for a couple major reasons, such as handling characteristics and tire wear. Often one is a function of the other. Surely, you can understand why having proper wheel alignment on your vehicle is important, but fine tuning it can change how the car responds to input and maximize tire life. This benefit is not limited to modified vehicles.