Learning about susp. and yes.. I want my car to ride like a cadillac.

[PieEyedPiper]

I am running stock everything right now, but my front struts are leaking. And I"m sure my rears are in just as bad condition.

I'm reading as much as I can to get a feel for the handling-tech forum, so bare with me!

I would ideally like to have an on-the-fly adjustable ride height so I can get in and out of my garage (sloped). I scrape as it is at stock ride height.

I would also like my suspension to be able to be adjustable for some spirited driving, while still being able to have a wonderful smooth ride for 1000mile roadtrips to the great north (Canada).

I realize I'm asking for two different things and having them all at the same time, but is there such an animal? Or at leats soemthing close to?

Any advice, suggestions (with reasoning) or threads would be helpful!
thanks!

 

[jtmcinder]

One reason why large cars like Caddies ride the way they do is the incredible ratio of sprung to unsprung weight. When a wheel hits a bump, it is much easier for the wheel to move up relative to the car than for the whole car to move up.

In order for a DSM to have the same sort of ratio, you'd need ultra-light wheels and tires, rotors made of something like carbon fiber, and titanium knuckles and control arms. 2G AWDs have a particularly lousy ratio in the rear, which is why springrates high enough to get the car to handle well on flat pavement often cause a terrible ride on the street.

Better to just get a BMW and call it a day.

- Jtoby

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Yeah, I see what you're syaing, but I also know its not possible without feather light wheels and brakes. You really think that my 3500lbs car isnt heavy enough for some kind of attempt at a good ride?

My girlfriends '98 Honda Civic EX (stock, but I keep threatening to put a NOS sticker across the windshield ) eats up potholes for lunch..where as I can't even driven down her street anymore cause I'm afraid my front struts will explode or worse, I'll be on dialisis my whole life (kidney trauma).

If the Cadi can do it, and the little Civic can do it.. why can't I?
Perhaps you took me too literally, I'm looking to learn about a suspension setup that will give me better handling on the street ( I don't race, though taking it to the track would be fun once I get my new turbo and fmic), and a comfortable ride for long-hauls and passengers. As it is now, my car is so rough to drive, I worry about things like my seats becoming unbolted from the floor.
A symptom of a busted down suspension setup? definitely.
But there must be a solution for this somewhere, right?

I'm not all that concenred with ride height, though a .9" drop would do a lot for asthetics, I'm mainly concerned with a good ride with the ability to take on some nice corners when I get the chance.
Thanks

 

[wret]

Well, considering you are in "handling tech" not "ride tech" the denizens here haven't put much thought into ride quality.

hmmm... unless you can get your hands on some those magnetorheological fluid shock absorbers used on some caddies and vettes, then we'll have something to talk about.

 

[pneumo]

Whatever you choose will be an improvement since your stock suspension is blown. Even new OEM shocks will be an improvement.
Also, you're asking too much of your car. It will never be able to blast over dips like a 4x4 and corner like a racecar while riding like a Caddy. Choose.

 

[drivemusicnow]

what it sounds like you really want is one of the "sports" Air bag suspension systems...

Benefits
adjustable ride height
adjustable ride "harshness"

Weaknesses
expensive
will probably have to be custom made/adapted



I would just go ahead with new shocks, keep the stock springs (or upgrade), upgrade to poly bushings and you will be amazed at the improvement over busted to hell crap.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

what it sounds like you really want is one of the "sports" Air bag suspension systems...

Benefits
adjustable ride height
adjustable ride "harshness"

Weaknesses
expensive
will probably have to be custom made/adapted



I would just go ahead with new shocks, keep the stock springs (or upgrade), upgrade to poly bushings and you will be amazed at the improvement over busted to hell crap.

You're right on the money with that one. Same to you too Pneumo.
I'm positive the air bags would get the job done, but for an unreasonable amount of hassle and cost.

I'm intrigued to find that no one here cares about ride quality, but only "handling" (even though one would imagine handling would encompass a good balance of both comfort and performance).

I agree anything I install would be an improvement over my stock equipment. I was just hoping to find some insights on what would be a good coilover or shock/spring combo that would allow me to soak up the potholes (like my gf's civic, not a damned 4x4...)but still corner well.

I don't really think I'm asking for too much, I realize picking one application for your suspension would yield greater results, like bodybuilding, you're either cutting or bulking, if you're doing both you're not doing either very well.

I think I used to strong of terms, like cadillac.

Could someone please suggest a good combo or coilover that would give me a nice ride, but still a bit more agressive than stock performance?

 

[wongster]

well after reading the postings.. i have decided to go for tokico illumina shocks and eibach pro kits.. i will tell you how they are once installed...

 

[PieEyedPiper]

cool, thanks for that.
I've heard the koni yellows are better? why did you choose the illuminas? do they offer a sdifferent kind of ride?
maybe they were on sale

 

[underradar92]

In your original post you mentioned that your struts are dead. If you're damping is shot (likely) then you're suspension is probably over-traveling, leading to scraping at the end of the driveway and an otherwise crummy ride. When I first got my car the front AGX's were toast and rode crappy (bouncy, bottoming). Since replacing them the car, albiet firmer, actually rides BETTER! I wouldn't rule out a sane drop, just exercise a bit of restraint, be honest with yourself on your goals & choose carefully. Good luck!

 

[BoBbOrAzE]

I personally purchased tokico illuminas and the eibach prokit. Illuminas because I got an amazing deal on them plus the ability to adjust and prokit because I think they are the perfect amount of drop as well as very popular for the dsm crowd. I found out later that I chose a very good combo. I will let you know as well after I install them.

For you I would say to purchase some adjustable shocks so you can decrease some of the "harshness" or increase the ability for handling, and then either some decent springs or coilovers so you can also adjust your ride height. Ideally with adjustable shocks and coilovers you can play with it yourself until you find your desired height and comfort. Either way it will all be a major improvement if your stock shocks are blown.

 

[BigRand]

Check out horsepowerfreaks.com They have a lot of good information on the springs and shocks they sell. You don't exactly have to purchase from them, but they do have a lot of good info on alot of different spring and shock set ups.

Usually the main thing with suspension is people's budget and willness to spend money.

Truth be told if (IMO), if you want the best ride. A full coilover setup is bar none the best way to go. That way you buy a spring specifically matched with the struts. And the ability to adjust the dampening too match road condtions or track/street use is awesome.

Coilovers

Some Decent coilover idea's are

1.Tanabe Sustec S-0C (purple) which go for $750, (ride height adjustable only)
(I own these and love em, I can hit any pot hole like its not there)
*This is what you want for a street ride

2. Tien Basic go for $750 as well (ride height adjustable only)
*Best for street ride
Steps up from these would be

1. Tanabe Sustec S-S (orange) which go for $1000 (dampening & ride height adjustable)
*Best for track and street

2. Tien Super Street go for $1000 (dampening & ride heigh adjustable)


If your budget dictates you cannot afford the FULL coilover setup, then a GOOD set of shocks & springs are what you need. Dont' skimp on these either.

I'll start with shocks first since that is what you need more then anything.

Shocks

If you've done your research around here you'll come to find that the Koni Yellows seem to favorite for best shock that doesn't come in a full coilover setup.

This is probably a very true statement, but (IMO) the cost you'll pay for the koni yellows and then to have springs on it you might as well just opt for a full coilver setup.

The Tokicko Illumina's seem to be (IMO) the #1 contender to the best shock, and are priced a little cheaper. With a 5way adjustable dampening setup, your sure to find the right setup for your girlfriends street, and probably outclass her flawless civic. (THATS WHAT US DSM-ERS DO! !!!)

I do here Very good things about the KYB AGX-A shocks, but I haven't seen them personally in action.

Shocks to stay away from:

Tokikco Blue HP's
KYB GR-2's
KYB AGX's (I've also heard very bad things as well, something to do with the front struts)

These (IMO) are the shocks that you have to replace time and time again. I bought my car with a set of HP's that were blown. I replaced them with some new HP's, Which blew again in 1.5months (couldn't handle the seattle hills), so I wised up and went with a full coilover set. This is just my story, but I've heard and witnessed plenty of other horror stories about these shocks on ECLIPSES.


Springs

Springs are very important as well. You definately want something with a decent spring rate so the spring is actually taking most of the blow when you hit a bump instead of your fender walls and tires.

The Eibach Prokit is my personal #1 favorite, Probably the most comfortable ride, and handles like a track car as well. Best bang for your buck. The Drop that you get isn't so low that you scrape everywhere you go, and the spring rate in it won't let you bottom out as much as some other springs do.

Other springs to keep in mind are

Tien S tech springs (watch out for fake ones on ebay, http://www.tein.com/counterfeit/warning.html)

Tanabe springs (GF210 Grip Feeling aka max agility &DF210 dress-up aka max lowering )

& H&R Springs

Prices:
(source www.horsepowerfreaks.com, check else where for better deals)

Shocks:

Koni yellows:$553.00

Tokikco Illuminas: $404.12

KYB AGX-A: $406.48

Springs:

Eibach Pro kit: $230.52

Tien S-tech: $160.00

Tanabe DF10 (max agility): 176.80

Tanabe GF10 (max lowering): 178.10

HR sprnigs sport kit stage 2: 206.64


I think why some people don't opt to buy a basic full coilover kit is because its one big chunk of money. Where as most people buy the lowering springs first, then after they get tired of doing the caddillac bounce on there stock shocks they go to something with a short stroke. So I've decided to compare the prices between spending the money on a spring/shock set-up and a full coilover system.

Avg. Price of what I listed for a set of shocks: $454.54
Avg. Price of what I listed for a set of springs: $190.42

Total price for a DECENT RIDE shock and spring combo is: $644.96

Total Price for a basic full coilover system is: $750.00

So for about $100 more you could have springs specifically designed for the shock it goes on. (and I mean that set of 4 springs is designed and best matched with that set of 4 shocks it comes with, yes different springs and shocks come out with different spring rates and dampening levels.)

The choice is up to you, and how you would like to handle in your car. And of course the budget you are on.

*NOTE*: All opinions in this post were manily my own bias, and research and convorsations I've had with shop owners and threads that have been posted on this website. I researched the topic as best as I could before posting, but numbers are subject o change and I cannot be held responsible for the decisions you make about your own car. This is my own personal guide which I am sharing.

The reason I choose www.horsepowerfreaks.com to do a price sampling from was because they are relatively popular to the world and are some what close in proximity to where I live in the Pacific NorthWest

Other Sources are: www.tanabe-usa.com and www.tien.com


Sorry for the long post, but hey, I'm done now

 

[jtmcinder]

Well, considering you are in "handling tech" not "ride tech" the denizens here haven't put much thought into ride quality.

Agreed. But I also think it's worth noting that there are two main ways for a car to have a lousy ride. First, you can make some very basic errors, such as not enough travel for the springrates (which can, for example, cause the front to "bottom out" and slam you on bumps) or have too much high-speed compression damping for your high-rate springs (which can also cause the car to bang up on bumps, usually in the rear). These problems can all be avoided with good planning. Second, however, there is the human over-sensitivity to frequencies above about 6 Hz. This means that you cannot run high-rate springs with a decent damping ratio and still be happy with the so-called ride.

- Jtoby

 

[wongster]

cool, thanks for that.
I've heard the koni yellows are better? why did you choose the illuminas? do they offer a sdifferent kind of ride?
maybe they were on sale

well i was originally thinking abt koni, but i dont need that much performance.. i just need better than stock, but good performance when i want to on the street.. i prob will never race on the track.. .. so with the tokico illuminia and eibach pro kits from the readers it seems to be a very good combo with a 1 - 1.5 drop which is good enough for me.. i dont want too much drop.. ...

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Incredible write up that should be entered into one of the stickies (since I could find no suggestions of what kinds of what are good for what links, in the current stickies).
Thank you very much, you've made my task a lot easier.
I'm thinking of looking up those Tanabe Sustec S-0C coilovers.

Check out horsepowerfreaks.com They have a lot of good information on the springs and shocks they sell. You don't exactly have to purchase from them, but they do have a lot of good info on alot of different spring and shock set ups.

Usually the main thing with suspension is people's budget and willness to spend money.

Truth be told if (IMO), if you want the best ride. A full coilover setup is bar none the best way to go. That way you buy a spring specifically matched with the struts. And the ability to adjust the dampening too match road condtions or track/street use is awesome.

Coilovers

Some Decent coilover idea's are

1.Tanabe Sustec S-0C (purple) which go for $750, (ride height adjustable only)
(I own these and love em, I can hit any pot hole like its not there)
*This is what you want for a street ride

2. Tien Basic go for $750 as well (ride height adjustable only)
*Best for street ride
Steps up from these would be

1. Tanabe Sustec S-S (orange) which go for $1000 (dampening & ride height adjustable)
*Best for track and street

2. Tien Super Street go for $1000 (dampening & ride heigh adjustable)


If your budget dictates you cannot afford the FULL coilover setup, then a GOOD set of shocks & springs are what you need. Dont' skimp on these either.

I'll start with shocks first since that is what you need more then anything.

Shocks

If you've done your research around here you'll come to find that the Koni Yellows seem to favorite for best shock that doesn't come in a full coilover setup.

This is probably a very true statement, but (IMO) the cost you'll pay for the koni yellows and then to have springs on it you might as well just opt for a full coilver setup.

The Tokicko Illumina's seem to be (IMO) the #1 contender to the best shock, and are priced a little cheaper. With a 5way adjustable dampening setup, your sure to find the right setup for your girlfriends street, and probably outclass her flawless civic. (THATS WHAT US DSM-ERS DO! !!!)

I do here Very good things about the KYB AGX-A shocks, but I haven't seen them personally in action.

Shocks to stay away from:

Tokikco Blue HP's
KYB GR-2's
KYB AGX's (I've also heard very bad things as well, something to do with the front struts)

These (IMO) are the shocks that you have to replace time and time again. I bought my car with a set of HP's that were blown. I replaced them with some new HP's, Which blew again in 1.5months (couldn't handle the seattle hills), so I wised up and went with a full coilover set. This is just my story, but I've heard and witnessed plenty of other horror stories about these shocks on ECLIPSES.


Springs

Springs are very important as well. You definately want something with a decent spring rate so the spring is actually taking most of the blow when you hit a bump instead of your fender walls and tires.

The Eibach Prokit is my personal #1 favorite, Probably the most comfortable ride, and handles like a track car as well. Best bang for your buck. The Drop that you get isn't so low that you scrape everywhere you go, and the spring rate in it won't let you bottom out as much as some other springs do.

Other springs to keep in mind are

Tien S tech springs (watch out for fake ones on ebay, http://www.tein.com/counterfeit/warning.html)

Tanabe springs (GF210 Grip Feeling aka max agility &DF210 dress-up aka max lowering )

& H&R Springs

Prices:
(source www.horsepowerfreaks.com, check else where for better deals)

Shocks:

Koni yellows:$553.00

Tokikco Illuminas: $404.12

KYB AGX-A: $406.48

Springs:

Eibach Pro kit: $230.52

Tien S-tech: $160.00

Tanabe DF10 (max agility): 176.80

Tanabe GF10 (max lowering): 178.10

HR sprnigs sport kit stage 2: 206.64


I think why some people don't opt to buy a basic full coilover kit is because its one big chunk of money. Where as most people buy the lowering springs first, then after they get tired of doing the caddillac bounce on there stock shocks they go to something with a short stroke. So I've decided to compare the prices between spending the money on a spring/shock set-up and a full coilover system.

Avg. Price of what I listed for a set of shocks: $454.54
Avg. Price of what I listed for a set of springs: $190.42

Total price for a DECENT RIDE shock and spring combo is: $644.96

Total Price for a basic full coilover system is: $750.00

So for about $100 more you could have springs specifically designed for the shock it goes on. (and I mean that set of 4 springs is designed and best matched with that set of 4 shocks it comes with, yes different springs and shocks come out with different spring rates and dampening levels.)

The choice is up to you, and how you would like to handle in your car. And of course the budget you are on.

*NOTE*: All opinions in this post were manily my own bias, and research and convorsations I've had with shop owners and threads that have been posted on this website. I researched the topic as best as I could before posting, but numbers are subject o change and I cannot be held responsible for the decisions you make about your own car. This is my own personal guide which I am sharing.

The reason I choose www.horsepowerfreaks.com to do a price sampling from was because they are relatively popular to the world and are some what close in proximity to where I live in the Pacific NorthWest

Other Sources are: www.tanabe-usa.com and www.tien.com


Sorry for the long post, but hey, I'm done now

 

[GVR4592]

The Tokicko Illumina's seem to be (IMO) the #1 contender to the best shock, and are priced a little cheaper. With a 5way adjustable dampening setup, your sure to find the right setup for your girlfriends street, and probably outclass her flawless civic. (THATS WHAT US DSM-ERS DO! !!!)

The best "riding" car I've ever been in had Illumina's. Took up pothole's like they weren't even there. I know absolutely nothing about suspension so don't make that statement your deciding factor.

 

[BigRand]

Incredible write up that should be entered into one of the stickies (since I could find no suggestions of what kinds of what are good for what links, in the current stickies).
Thank you very much, you've made my task a lot easier.
I'm thinking of looking up those Tanabe Sustec S-0C coilovers.

Why thank you. It could use some Polishing, but I was up late the other night, and just got tired after writing alot.


I guarentee you that those sustecs won't do you wrong. You'll have one of the best rides a lowered car can have sitting 2"-3" off the ground.

 

[wongster]

well if anybody does decided to pick tokico illumina this site
http://www.sportcompactonly.com/product.aspx?p=2167&c=172&l=2
has it for good price picked it up there... atleast its cheaper than ebay. ...