Power Slot Big Rotors

[madman]

Are these worth the money?

I'm just about to install a 50trim with all the supporting parts and now my stock rotors are going bad and need to be replaced. My goal is well over 300hp and I know that better brakes is necessary anyways. So my question is would going with the larger rotors make that much difference using stock calipers (2g awd's are dual piston) compared to going with performace rotors like Brembo or even Power Slots that are the same size as the stock ones?

Stock rotors 10.25 rear and 10.75 front

P S big rotors 11.5 rear and 12.5 front

P S big rotors are a little more than 2x the price as Brembo's and other stock size performance rotors.

Oh ya, I do have 17" wheels so that is not a problem.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

The Baer kit is good for a great price, but past that I can't give you anymore info. I guess you'll have to get a response from someone with more experience then me.

 

[jtmcinder]

I've not heard of anyone road-racing with a 50 trim. Why do you need larger brakes? What pads are you running now?

- Jtoby

 

[arash15]

I've not heard of anyone road-racing with a 50 trim. Why do you need larger brakes? What pads are you running now?

- Jtoby

i have a buddy who road races on his pte 50 trim. it has the smaller wheel for a quick spool.

 

[madman]

I've not heard of anyone road-racing with a 50 trim. Why do you need larger brakes? What pads are you running now?

- Jtoby

From what I have all ways heard is that when you increase the hp in your car you should get better brakes. Are the 2g stock brakes adequate for high hp? I feel that the dual piston calipers are good enough, I just thought about going with better rotors for better stopping, for highway driving.

Right now I'm on stock rotors and pads. I was looking at getting Axxis pads when I replace the rotors.

I didn't say anything about road-racing. My car will be mainly a daily driver with a little drag strip time. Maybe a lot of strip time if I really get hooked. I've been to the drag strip just never raced my car. I've been waiting till I replaced the turbo and had a better setup.

 

[jtmcinder]

A daily driver 2G AWD with 300 hp does not need new brakes. A drag car might want them for weight, but doesn't need them to stop, unless the drag-strip has a ridiculously short tail end. I have bigT28 (with who knows what hp) and autocross using (excessive) amounts of left-foot braking. The stock brakes are fine or, at least, became fine when I dumped the Metal Masters and got decents pads. There are probably several other areas where the same amount of money would net bigger gains. But, as always, YMMV.

One last point: if you have a lowered 2G then increasing front braking torque and doing nothing else will probably make the car take longer to slow down. Why? Because you will be moving more braking bias forward and my experience is that a lowered 2G needs to move bias to the rear, not the front.

- Jtoby

 

[madman]

A daily driver 2G AWD with 300 hp does not need new brakes. A drag car might want them for weight, but doesn't need them to stop, unless the drag-strip has a ridiculously short tail end. I have bigT28 (with who knows what hp) and autocross using (excessive) amounts of left-foot braking. The stock brakes are fine or, at least, became fine when I dumped the Metal Masters and got decents pads. There are probably several other areas where the same amount of money would net bigger gains. But, as always, YMMV.

One last point: if you have a lowered 2G then increasing front braking torque and doing nothing else will probably make the car take longer to slow down. Why? Because you will be moving more braking bias forward and my experience is that a lowered 2G needs to move bias to the rear, not the front.

- Jtoby

sorry for my ingnorance but what does YMMV stand for.

i'm glad you mentioned a lowered 2g, cause i'm looking to replace the susepension in the near future. i was looking at tein h-tech or eibach pro.... just wanting a minimun drop 1 - 1.5 inches max. again my struts are leaking and looking at upgrading when the time comes to replace.

so in your opinon it would be better to stay with the stock size?

what do you thing about any brands like Brembo, Power Slot, and others that make replacement rotors that are the same size as stock, just with slotted and or drilled?

i've had a few shops recommend the metal master pads, what would you suggest?

 

[slugsgomoo]

YMMV = your mileage may vary

 

[jtmcinder]

YMMV = your mileage may vary

It's a general disclaimer because people want different things and have different driving styles.

Try the Metal Masters. If your rotors are shot, Brembo blanks or Powerslots. SS lines add some feel, which is good for when you learn to left-foot brake. Bleed the entire system.

- Jtoby

 

[madman]

One last point: if you have a lowered 2G then increasing front braking torque and doing nothing else will probably make the car take longer to slow down.

- Jtoby

I was re-reading this and wondered in the setup I mentioned, it increases the rear size rotors as well as the front. The fronts are still bigger but only buy an inch, unlike if I went with just the fonts, like the Bear setup, then there would be 2 inches, a bigger bias as you mentioned. Where you taking in consideration of increasing the rears?

I just want the best braking I can get for a reasonable price (under $800).
Most shops that I have talked to say that it is worth buying the bigger rotors but I'm sure they are solely looking out for my interest. They say that there is big difference from the stock size. If this is not the case, if I as a non-road racer but as a grocery getter with a lead foot, will not feel the difference then I will stick with a stock size replacements and save some money.

SO THE BIG QUESTION, WOULD I FEEL THE DIFFERENCE?

I live in the midwest so we get a lot of rain and snow, so if the slotted rotors will help stopping in the rain I would be willing to trade the shorter life span of the pads for better all weather stopping.

Any other feedback is great and thanks for the ones that all ready have.

 

[jtmcinder]

Slots are for releasing trapped gas, not water. If not in a high-heat situation, you'll get the best performance from something like Brembo blanks.

If you really want to do this right, you have two choices. You can go to a good vendor who knows DSMs, such as Todd at TCE, or you can learn how to calculate brake bias and do the math yourself.

If you are going to take the second route, you need to know the piston areas for the front and rear calipers, and the effective radius of the rotors. You do this for the stock (current) system and calculate the front-to-rear bias ratio. Then you choose a new system that gets either the same ratio or maybe one that is slightly more rear-biased (if your car is lowered and you know how to drive).

Another issue that often gets ignored when playing around with bias is the behavior of the proportioning valve. Up until a certain point, the front and rear line pressures are the same. Above the "knee" or "break" point, less pressure goes to the rear than the front. When you increase the pads' friction (mu), it takes less pressure to get the same amount of braking torque. This means you spend less time above the "knee" and, therefore, get a bit more rear bias than before. This is why my suggestion -- repeated about ten times this week -- is to first try better pads (maybe with SS lines for feel), because you might find that your brakes are fine as they are.

- Jtoby

 

[FORMONTOYA]

i have the power slot plus on my car. you will definitely notice the difference. but as stated you will also notice a difference with just a good set of pads and ss lines. and as stated, if you do the fronts, do the rears also for better balance. i started with just a pad and ss line upgrade, then i got a more aggressive driving style behind it and cooked a set of rotors. then i upgraded to the ps+ rotors and have not managed to cook them yet. but be warned...make sure you have your seatbelt on...because the car will stop on the proverbial dime.


jim

 

[housegsx]

The factory setup may be adequate if you get quality rotors such as Brembo blanks and a quality pads with some stainless lines. If you are going to spend big money and upgrade the diameter of the rotor size, I say go with the Baer track up front and the powerslots big rotor kit in the rear. This way you get to upgrade to a much better and lighter caliper and get to have 13 inch rotors. For a price difference of $100-$200, I think it’s worth it in the long run.
The reason I suggest this, other than the fact I am biased because it’s what I have, is because I think the factory calipers are complete junk. Going with the big powerslot kit up front you have to keep the factory calipers. The calipers on these cars are awful and I’ve had nothing but problems. My front ones would only wear a pad on one side of the rotor and my rear calipers have both seized up on the guide pins (even after a rebuild). So now I’ve replace the rear calipers. Although the rear powerslot kit has worked great for me and was easy to put on, powerslot quality is not the greatest. After less than 1 year the black finish turned to rust because they use a cheap paint instead of a zinc wash or the equivalent. They also ship with a fairly rough machined grove finish on the firepath instead of a nice fine crosshatch like you see everywhere else. This eventually wears even, but the break-in time before they look worn correctly takes a while longer. So if you do decide to replace with factory replacement sizes, I’d suggest Brembo over Powerslot.
Having my car lowered and having the bigger brakes front and rear makes a huge difference in braking for me and the bias feels perfect to me. The car feels very planted and doesn't dive anymore and the rear doesn't feel like it wants to come around braking hard in a turn. I’ve also heard that a perfect brake bias is not quite as important on an AWD because the entire drivetrain is linked together anyway.(Assuming you have it in gear and are doing some engine breaking) Correct me if I’m wrong on that one Jtoby.
This is just my $0.02 and I hope it helps you make a good and decision.

 

[jtmcinder]

The calipers on these cars are awful and I’ve had nothing but problems. My front ones would only wear a pad on one side of the rotor and my rear calipers have both seized up on the guide pins (even after a rebuild).

These are the symptoms of not using good grease on the pins and/or not replacing the grease often enough. Sta-Lube high-temp grease is a good choice.

- Jtoby

 

[housegsx]

I used caliper grease and even cleaned up the pins to make sure they would slide freely. Just never had good luck with them. So I got pissed and bought new everything. !

 

[madman]

These are the symptoms of not using good grease on the pins and/or not replacing the grease often enough. Sta-Lube high-temp grease is a good choice.

- Jtoby

Could this be the same cause of my brakes beginning to stick. I'm trying not to drive the cars as much as possible because the pads and rotors are getting pretty worn, but when I do the brakes sometimes begin to stick after comming to a stop. Then I have to pump them a little or just hold them down tight for a few seconds and then they release.

Would simply cleaning them and greasing them when I replace the brakes most likely help or with 110k miles on them are they going to need a rebuild/replaced? They have not seized all together like housegsx's did.

Also because of this I have thought more about the Bear setup with the new calipers.
Other than the Bear setup, does anyone make OEM replacement calipers (2 piston not 4)
front and rear.

housegsx- sound like you replaced the rear calipers too, where did you get yours?

 

[jtmcinder]

It couldn't hurt.

I don't bother cleaning the pins, since they are cheap. I replace them if they show any signs of damage.

The tubes in the calipers are a different story. If they get pitted or rusty or whatever, then you will have problems. I have found that using the cleaning brushes for gun-barrels works well (even though SWMBO, my wife, went ape when she saw the credit-card bill with "Bob's Gun Shop" on it).

And don't use anything less than a good high-temp grease.

- Jtoby

 

[housegsx]

housegsx- sound like you replaced the rear calipers too, where did you get yours?

The tubes in the calipers are a different story. If they get pitted or rusty or whatever, then you will have problems. I have found that using the cleaning brushes for gun-barrels works well (even though SWMBO, my wife, went ape when she saw the credit-card bill with "Bob's Gun Shop" on it).

Yeah, I have the Baer’s up front and had to replace the rear caliper’s after repeated attempts at rebuilding them. When I upgraded to the larger powerslot kit in the rear I rebuild the rear calipers (greased pins, new piston seal, and all new dust boots) so everything in my brake system would be brand spanking new. They worked flawlessly for a year and then just recently seized up. I did notice the bores in the caliper weren’t too smooth anymore so I tried using a small wire wheel on a dremel and then after that didn’t work I even tried cleaning them up with a drill bit. Nothing changed, so I replaced them with Mitsu OEM brand new ones. When they were dragging for a couple days(And they both went at once for some reason that’s is beyond me) I heated up my powerslots and now the rears have the slightest pulse in them at low speed driving. So now I want to price new rotors for mine. And that aren’t even old to begin with. I can’t stand driving a car when the brakes don’t work absolutely flawlessly. So I’d hate to see you upgrade to a 12.5 powerslot kit and then kill those brand new rotors if you run into a similar caliper problem.

 

[madman]

Well I really wanted the Baer/Powerslot setup but I couldn't spend that much on it. Plus I couldn't find any that had the Baer kit in stock and my brakes are getting so bad I couldn't wait any longer.

So I bought the Brembo blanks with Metal Master pads and new brake lines.

Hopefully they should be in early next week and I can get them on. I'll let you guys know what I think.

Thanks for all your input.

Dennis

 

[madman]

Well, I finally got my brakes all finished. I ended up having to order new calipers and then a new caliper bracket for the front right side ( broke the slide pin off inside )

Car has 110k miles on it.

For and FYI... I got my calipers at Advance Auto Parts for $220 rebuilt with a core exchange. Pretty good deal considering they were $580 for new ones from the dealership. Plus the rebuilt ones come with a lifetime warranty.

The company I bought the brakes from actually sent pads other than the metal masters. They are ceramic but can't think of the brand at the moment.

So far the brakes are great. Very good feel with the new lines on. I really haven't had to stomp on the brakes but it doesn't take much effort to slow it down.

Thanks again for all the help from everyone.

Feel free to ask me any questions.