2g suspension weak??????

[Squackdiddy]

because i heard it is wishbone style instead of mcpherson???????????

 

[Squackdiddy]

got damn no body knows?

 

[2gGSX]

Yes both front and rear are independent multi-link. However why is this bad?

 

[Squackdiddy]

i dont know is it bad? is it weaker then the 1gs suspension? which is better for autoX?

 

[2gGSX]

The 2g suspension is better for autox. Besides, with the 1g you'll have to fix the steering cutoff at high RPMs. Either a 1g or a 2g will be fine for an autocross though, if thats what you're asking.

 

[NDgsx]

i dont know is it bad? is it weaker then the 1gs suspension? which is better for autoX?

They both suck. The polar moment of inertia is too high for them to take fast transitions well. Buy a miata for autoX. On road courses without slaloms DSMs are awesome though.

 

[Squackdiddy]

what about drifting?

 

[Spidey]

We are not RWD, and most people dont make enough power to do AWD drifting.

 

[jtmcinder]

They both suck. The polar moment of inertia is too high for them to take fast transitions well. Buy a miata for autoX.

While I agree that we can't keep up with Miatae, that's irrelevant since we don't run against them. Nor do we run against Corvettes or Loti. We run against ITRs in stock (whch is a hard hill to climb) and against F-bodies and Mustangs in SP. And those are fairly well matched to us.

- Jtoby

 

[1LE]

The 2g suspension is better for autox. Besides, with the 1g you'll have to fix the steering cutoff at high RPMs. Either a 1g or a 2g will be fine for an autocross though, if thats what you're asking.

2g's also have a power steering problem, but it's not RPM dependent. It can't handle a lock to lock to lock without experiencing the same cutoff that 1g's experience by high rpms. Not *usually* an issue, but I've hit it on some really tight autox courses. Quite annoying.

 

[Squackdiddy]

We are not RWD, and most people dont make enough power to do AWD drifting.

do you need power to drift? im thinkin no, technique?

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

They both suck. The polar moment of inertia is too high for them to take fast transitions well. Buy a miata for autoX. On road courses without slaloms DSMs are awesome though.

I seem to have great turn in, granted its not the best but still up to par. When I hit the curves the car seems to stick to the road and the rear usually wants break loose before the front. It seems to also pivot pretty good fro a fwd car, being the only time I under steered was in the rain the on the first time I drove it. I do now sometimes understeer but thats with ALOT more power then stock with blown suspension and 205 tires as bald as Andre agassi's head.

JTM what do you mean by "thats a hard hill to climb" when you speak of a itr?
Andrew

 

[NDgsx]

While I agree that we can't keep up with Miatae, that's irrelevant since we don't run against them. Nor do we run against Corvettes or Loti. We run against ITRs in stock (whch is a hard hill to climb) and against F-bodies and Mustangs in SP. And those are fairly well matched to us.

- Jtoby

I'm not talking about in terms of winning or loosing. Your best budy proved they can be competitive. I just think the miata is more fun to autoX than a DSM. At least I thought so after driving my dads stock miata after my SM 91 awd (rip). I've just never liked the way any DSM handles slaloms, no matter how they are setup. Of course doing track days that really doesn't matter to me anymore.

 

[1LE]

I have to agree that DSMs are not the best in slaloms. Kinda like making a pig dance Still fun, but there's other cars better suited to that particular maneuver.

 

[jtmcinder]

In terms of tossability and pure fun, I agree that Miatae are way up there, especially when prepped for SP. But I don't agree about 2Gs having problems in slaloms. If you divide autoX elements into three categories - slaloms, sweepers, and tight stuff - me and my car do the best in the first. But, then again, my car is very biased to the rear in terms of weight transfer but runs a daily-driver alignment, so that could explain it. Plus, I'm a gutless wimp who refuses to slow down enough, so it could be all me. But if you trust my driving at all, my car is too loose for sweepers and doesn't have the front toe-out needed for tight stuff.

As to ITRs being a "hard hill to climb" I simply mean that a well-driven ITR will almost always beat a well-driven 2G. I beat my own best time in an ITR on my second try. Yeah, 2Gs launch better and have a bit more power, but everything else is so much in their favor that it's like tilting at windmills.

- Jtoby

 

[cait sith]

do you need power to drift? im thinkin no, technique?

You don't know much about drifting, do you? How do you plan on holding a drift without having the tires spinning?

---

I think the 2G suspension is a pretty excellently designed piece of work compared to the 1G setup, spare Mitsubishi's usual shit-build quality (Hello balljoint recall (nevermind that they creak like hell anyways post-recall) and terrible suspension bushings). A stripped and properly prepared 2G has more than enough potential to be a potent road course car versus other such AWD cars (WRX/EVO/yadda yadda yadda), which I think has been more than proven...

 

[talonted_one]

You don't know much about drifting, do you? How do you plan on holding a drift without having the tires spinning?
..

Apparently you too do not know much about drifting. While it is true the more power you have the easier the drifts will be to induce, you can drift a awd effectively with as little power as 300hp in my opinion. I didnt dyno my car when I was messing around doing that but I know 100mph trap speeds tell me I wasnt making 400whp.


Technique ,a well thought out suspension, and a good platform are the only things needed for drifting.

 

[cait sith]

Apparently you too do not know much about drifting. While it is true the more power you have the easier the drifts will be to induce, you can drift a awd effectively with as little power as 300hp in my opinion. I didnt dyno my car when I was messing around doing that but I know 100mph trap speeds tell me I wasnt making 400whp.


Technique ,a well thought out suspension, and a good platform are the only things needed for drifting.

Messing around? What exactly is entailed in "messing around"?

Do you mean playing around in a parking lot? Or do you mean actually going to a drift day? There's quite a difference. If you were at a drift day, well, I've never had anyone where I go talk about any sort of AWD platforms actually being there other than poser hard-parking show EVOs.

300 horsepower isn't going to move most aftermarket rubber at all enough a fat ass 3200+ lb DSM platform that's got two shitty fluid diffs and a front open diff. Oh sure, you might be able to spin some forged 16" wheels with 195 width tires, but it's going to be one of the most annoying and unfun cars out there to drive. Nevermind what the center diff is going to think about your abuse within a few hours. To make a DSM a decent drift platform you're going to have to gut the car until it hits maybe 2800 lbs, prothane everything, stiffen the hell out of the rear section of the chassis, build up the tranny so far that nukes won't hurt it, spend about 3 grand on differentials, shave the tiny tires down, make big enough power to create tire smoke for the judges, ad naseum.

By platform I'm assuming you mean a RWD platform, and not a DSM is simply too cost prohibitive, and requires a hell of a lot more balls than RWD for entry speeds.

 

[DragonKnight]

because i heard it is wishbone style instead of mcpherson???????????

Only if you're planning on rallying your car in the dirt. Other than that, I'll take a four corner double-wishbone suspension on the road course anyday.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

because i heard it is wishbone style instead of mcpherson???????????

f1 cars use wishbone so I guess they work pretty good. As far as the evo goes a evo will out handle a dsm plaily cause of the technology it uses compared to a dsm has. Dont get me wrong a dsm can be made to handle better but stock EVO's have tons of tech and ability.
Andrew

 

[jtmcinder]

f1 cars use wishbone so I guess they work pretty good.

The main advantage of struts is lower unsprung mass. The main advantage of double wishbone is better bump-camber curves. On a bumpy course with low grip (think WRC), this argues for struts. On a smooth course with high grip (think road racing), this argues for double wishbone.

To put one against the other in some general way is to compare apples and oranges when you don't know whether you're having pork or breakfast.

And any reference to F1 is rather off the point, since those cars have lever-driven inboard shocks and springs, so it's not like they had a choice.

- Jtoby

 

[cait sith]

f1 cars use wishbone so I guess they work pretty good. As far as the evo goes a evo will out handle a dsm plaily cause of the technology it uses compared to a dsm has. Dont get me wrong a dsm can be made to handle better but stock EVO's have tons of tech and ability.
Andrew

Wrong.

Do some suspension mapping and geometry on an EVO sometime. Better shocks/spring rates/grippy tires/stiffer chassis does not mean a better core suspension.

 

[talonted_one]

Messing around? What exactly is entailed in "messing around"?

Do you mean playing around in a parking lot? Or do you mean actually going to a drift day? There's quite a difference. If you were at a drift day, well, I've never had anyone where I go talk about any sort of AWD platforms actually being there other than poser hard-parking show EVOs.

300 horsepower isn't going to move most aftermarket rubber at all enough a fat ass 3200+ lb DSM platform that's got two shitty fluid diffs and a front open diff. Oh sure, you might be able to spin some forged 16" wheels with 195 width tires, but it's going to be one of the most annoying and unfun cars out there to drive. Nevermind what the center diff is going to think about your abuse within a few hours. To make a DSM a decent drift platform you're going to have to gut the car until it hits maybe 2800 lbs, prothane everything, stiffen the hell out of the rear section of the chassis, build up the tranny so far that nukes won't hurt it, spend about 3 grand on differentials, shave the tiny tires down, make big enough power to create tire smoke for the judges, ad naseum.

By platform I'm assuming you mean a RWD platform, and not a DSM is simply too cost prohibitive, and requires a hell of a lot more balls than RWD for entry speeds.

I agree with what you are saying but so many people talk about drifting a DSM is next to impossible ore way too difficult to try. In reality its not. Yes when I was "messing" around at an abandoned air field It wasnt to hard to keep the tires moving. Why? It prolly was the chitty rubber on my stock wheels. Thats not the point. The point is, if you know what you are doing you can "drift" anything from a DSM to your 90 year old grandmother's ford festiva. You Just have to know what you are doing.


Oh and Drifting anything isnt cheap.

 

[jtmcinder]

And here I was, thinking that all Ford Festivas were FWD. More fool me.

- Jtoby

ps. my maternal grandmother's last car was a Fury III, which was driftable; my paternal grandparents didn't ever own a car