Ground Wire mod=Electrical fire

[69_luv]

First off this is my fault for thinking but not reacting. I did the ground wire mod this weekend because I was getting electrical feedback, also called road noise from the speakers. I was also getting a battery drain if the car wasn't driven for a couple days. This started after I mounted/installed my wideband and Glowshift gauges. I checked, double checked all the connections and ground point for the gauges and all are installed perfectly.

So this morning was the first time I drove the car sense the ground wire mod I installed this weekend. I followed this guide:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...5889-homemade-4-gauge-grounding-wire-kit.html

About half way to class smoke starts looting out of my hood. I pull over and there is major problem, the wire that I had going from the head to exhaust manifold, and the wire from the manifold to ground side of the alternator are melting and smoking!! I will post some pictures after class, but needless to say it is a bit of a mess.

I thought about this when I was doing the mod, that header (I have a ceramic coated FP Race Cast) gets stupid hot, how is it that I can attach a wire to it? I thought well that's were it says to go....

I need to find another place to attach a ground on my exhaust system as the header is too hot. I am thinking that I am going to replace the ground wire that is under the car near the cat, or get a solid exhaust ground that is rated for extreme temps.

On a positive note I had no electrical feedback at all for the short drive this morning, and the car felt much more responsive. You wouldn't think just putting some ground wires in would make a difference but it surely did.

 

[jtmcinder]

Why are you involving the exhaust manifold at all? Do you have an electric turbo? Even if you have an EGT sender, it draws nothing, really.

There must be more to this than I'm thinking of....

 

[LiquidX]

Before adding in more grounds, check the current ground wires for any corrosion on the wires under the plastic insulation/shielding. More often than not, they are just so old that the resistance has gone up and is not longer a very good ground. The contact point makes a difference as well if it's only going to paint or a bare metal surface. The bolts are the same way, are they rusty or clean and same with the bolt holes.

But yes, there is no reason for the exhaust manifold to have a wire to it and most likely, the massive amount of heat that was generated in that wire caused the fire.

 

[69_luv]

Why are you involving the exhaust manifold at all? Do you have an electric turbo? Even if you have an EGT sender, it draws nothing, really.

There must be more to this than I'm thinking of....

Yeah man I got one of those "Increase your Horsepower" electric turbo's off Ebay, it said it would give me like 4000HP and it was only $20!!!

Nah seriously it wasn't the electric draw that caused the melt-down, it was the transfer of heat. Gold plated connector attached to a manifold with 4 gauge wire, so the wire heated up to the point of catastrophic failure.

Nothing to do with electricity just my mistake for fallowing the write-up and not thinking for myself. I yanked the two wires out after class (by that time they had cooled down). I am going to rethink grounding the exhaust. If you look at the write-up from above its wire #5 and post #4 that I am talking about, he had the stock heat shield in place and I am sure that would make a drastic difference than my ceramic coated cast without a heat shield. At any rate I am going to find a spot further down the exhaust and use a grounding strap that is designed for high heat applications.

The drive home was way better, the car feels so much smoother now. I would swear that it fixed my step feeling in the power band. Before it felt like it was not smoothing out in the fuel curve and it was like going up a flight of stairs as the car goes up in RPM's, now it feels like the smooth power band its supposed to be. Also no more electrical noise in the speaker when driving.

 

[red_devil]

I’m sorry but what do you think was gonna happenWTF

Installing a ground wire made of copper to something that gets over 500 degrees??? You do not need to ground the exhaust manifold, if you wanted to ground it you should of grounded the downpipe where the stock ground is. Installing a ground on the manifold will do nothing, they only good places to ground are anything aluminum on the car as aluminum grounds poorly. So just ground the intake manifold, head and transmission.

 

[69_luv]

I’m sorry but what do you think was gonna happenWTF

Installing a ground wire made of copper to something that gets over 500 degrees??? You do not need to ground the exhaust manifold, if you wanted to ground it you should of grounded the downpipe where the stock ground is. Installing a ground on the manifold will do nothing, they only good places to ground are anything aluminum on the car as aluminum grounds poorly. So just ground the intake manifold, head and transmission.

Let see, I was thinking that I was fallowing the freaking guide Mr. WTF. Check the pic on his guide it has a wire connected to the manifold, as well as the bottom post that says go to the exhaust manifold and at the top it says it again. And the DIY had 5stars, reputable, ect... I was also using heavy duty 4gauge with a high temp resistance for use in high temp applications. Apparently it doesn't go that's high.... I already said that this was my fault and that should have gone differently.
As far as the ground on the DP there isn't one on my car until right next to the cat (or where my cat used to be anyway)
I think I am actually going to go with the grounding strap material for the exhaust and by the alternator.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

The think the guide refers to grounding to the manifold heat shield, not to the actual exhaust. If you look at post #4 in the guide, the picture clearly shows heat shield.

 

[Blurred Talon]

Why oh why do people think adding all kinds of extra grounds will help.
Do the Big 3 upgrade and you'll be fine.

That and ditch the DSM alternator because they are the biggest piece of junk ever.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

^^^ yes. I'm fairly impressed that you actually backed out a manifold to turbo bolt to add ground wires.

Once you've mastered grounding, investigate upgrading the alt. power wire/fuse.

 

[69_luv]

^^^ yes. I'm fairly impressed that you actually backed out a manifold to turbo bolt to add ground wires.

Once you've mastered grounding, investigate upgrading the alt. power wire/fuse.

Nice thing about my ARP turbo bolts with the ARP lube is that I can take them off and on with no stress. The tq down and come out easy every time (knocks on wood).
I wasn't having a problem with voltage dropping, I was having problems with weak grounds. I read about doing this ground mod and figured it would help, and it did greatly.

Yes our alternators are garbage, and if I was running a 255 instead of my 190 (has re-wire) and aftermarket amp/subs, ect..I would change my alt. If mine goes bad I will look into a higher amp alt. BTW I didn't do all the grounds out of the DIY, just the R Strut to bat, bat to TB, TB to Head, and ALT to grounding stud by the power steering res.

Anyway thanks for the constructive criticism, and if anyone else has problems with electrical noise from your speakers, battery drain, or weak grounds think about doing part of the grounding mod just skip the attaching to your exhaust manifold and make sure you get a quality 4gauge that has insulation rated for high temps and keep away from hot engine components.
Man everyone on here just hates on people, wow. I think maybe in the future I won't post errors made

 

[Blurred Talon]

Not hating...just adding my 2 cents.
Now as for the alt, look at a Saturn upgrade if and when the stocker goes. The high amp units don't address the issue with the DSM alternators.

 

[crimsondragon]

Get uninsulated wires. Crimp it with uninsulated terminals. Anything with insulation is going to burn. Don't even bother soldering it.

 

[red_devil]

I wasn't trying to hate on you bud; I haven't looked at that thread for a long time and didn't remember the manifold/heat shield part. It really should be stated more clearly not to attach it anywhere near the exhaust manifold.

The stock ground on the down pipe will tend to fray and break that is why I mentioned that. It also won't get nearly as hot as the manifold. I really wouldn't worry about grounding the exhaust manifold but grounding the alternator is a good idea and can be done with the wire you have as long as you route it in a good way.