DSMLink/WB is crazy.

laserspeeddemon · 03-03-2011, 10:11 AM

A few months ago, I had my GM MAF cable go bad. So twdorris cut me a deal on a new one (thanks, Thomas D.)

I put the cable in and finished buttoning up the transmission and then took the car out. Here is my problem, whether I am running 18psi or 28psi (I literally ran 27.5+ psi), my wide band (AEM UEGO) says that I am running 10.5:1-10.8:1. I have never seen knock. Then my temps spiked north of 270.

I checked some things on the car, the Airflowperrev was at 0.38-0.40 gm/rev. My CombinedFT are at -24%. I tried to adjust my MAF Comp and it had 0 effect on the Airflowperrev. And I am just now noticing that at idle (900 RPMS) my MAF is registering 600+ Hz, is that right?

Also, at 28psi, I expected at least some knock. But I got nothing.

Anyway check out the logs. Give me some inputs... and I'll give you a cyber high five. If you are local, I'll buy you some beer.

I have a highway log, but it won't upload due to the size. I can't split the log on my Mac, due to some compability on the version of OS I am using and DSMLink, so I can't open DSMLink.

I can email it to someone or I can upload it later when a friend comes over.

LiquidX · 03-03-2011, 10:23 AM

Fill out your profile some more with current mods. What injectors are you using?

Edit:

A couple things I took notice is on an idle portion your ICS value is 0. That means your BISS is set improperly to obtain your idle. You want a value of 30 at idle. Your TPS voltage should be 0.63 at 0% throttle; you have 0.65v. Drop coasting offset to 150rpm at most. You have neither the wideband or the MAP sensor being logged on Link.

Personally, I would put the WB in the front o2 sensor location and enable narrow band simulation.

Also, use only the sliders or the DA table, not both. If you are going to use the DA table then zero out the sliders.

laserspeeddemon · 03-03-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiQUiDx

Fill out your profile some more with current mods. What injectors are you using?

Edit:

A couple things I took notice is on an idle portion your ICS value is 0. That means your BISS is set improperly to obtain your idle. You want a value of 30 at idle. Your TPS voltage should be 0.63 at 0% throttle; you have 0.65v. Drop coasting offset to 150rpm at most. You have neither the wideband or the MAP sensor being logged on Link.

Personally, I would put the WB in the front o2 sensor location and enable narrow band simulation.

Also, use only the sliders or the DA table, not both. If you are going to use the DA table then zero out the sliders.

That's interesting.... I played around with fixing the tune when my MAF cable died and I reverted back to the 1g MAF. Since I fixed replaced the cable, I loaded the original tune set by National Speed and Custom. I hadn't changed anything on the DSMLink settings other than changing the Dash ECL Coolant setting (It was set at 190, I set it at 235). Stupid me for assuming a shop would do it right.

LiquidX · 03-03-2011, 11:22 AM

Go and fix the above mentioned and post up a new log. Oh and if you need to upload a log and the size is too large, just use the "clip to selection" for the part you want reviewed and upload that.

Colt4G63 also · 03-03-2011, 11:29 AM

Why do you have your coolant offset so much, and you don't worry about knock below 7900 RPM? That's pretty daring.

Also, is this log with the 1g MAF? If so, you forgot to unlock the BARO and IAT.

LiquidX · 03-03-2011, 11:32 AM

What coolant offset, he has his at 0* offset which is normal. As for the knock, I didn't catch that, drop it down to 3000rpm and 50% throttle.

DSMTyson · 03-03-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt4G63 also

Why do you have your coolant offset so much, and you don't worry about knock below 7900 RPM? That's pretty daring.

Also, is this log with the 1g MAF? If so, you forgot to unlock the BARO and IAT.

I believe you just found the answers to your knock situation.

laserspeeddemon · 03-03-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiQUiDx

The crazy thing is, the car ran better when I was tuning it myself using the stock MAS. I didn't play with the WOT, though. I just tuned it for idle and cruise and stayed off the boost as much as possible

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt4G63 also

Why do you have your coolant offset so much, and you don't worry about knock below 7900 RPM? That's pretty daring.

Are you kidding me?!? They had knock turned off below 7900RPMS?!? How do I adjust that! No wonder I was getting 0 knock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt4G63 also

Also, is this log with the 1g MAF? If so, you forgot to unlock the BARO and IAT.

No, this is tune is the tune from National Speed and Custom with the GM MAF blow-through setup

LiquidX · 03-03-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

Are you kidding me?!? They had knock turned off below 7900RPMS?!? How do I adjust that! No wonder I was getting 0 knock.

Go to the ALS/Knock tab and at the bottom it shows the knock threshold. Change RPM to 3000 and TPS % to 50%

Bet you will see some knock now

Colt4G63 also · 03-03-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiQUiDx

What coolant offset, he has his at 0* offset which is normal. As for the knock, I didn't catch that, drop it down to 3000rpm and 50% throttle.

My mistake, I was looking at the coolant based adjustment on the ISC tab.

EDIT: Looking at other sample logs I would say your MAF raw isn't super high. Have you checked fuel pressure, and for maybe a leaky FPR or injectors?

UofACATS · 03-03-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

They had knock turned off below 7900RPMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt4G63 also

knock 7900 RPM?

You sir, deserve a thank you.

gofer · 03-03-2011, 12:11 PM

If you can't drop AirflowPerRev using the sliders and CombinedFT is that negative you've got boost leaks. Doing WOT pulls before you even get your idle tuned correctly is pointless, you've got to walk before you can run.

Fix your boost leaks and change the above, then post an idle log with the car warmed up.

MY1GDSM · 03-03-2011, 12:46 PM

From reading the title I would hope that your at least logging your wideband even if it's an AEM But I see your not at all? Same goes for your AEM 3.5 bar map sensor? you have it selected for the ECU side but not on the PC-side for logging?

Edit:3 more things... .
What's with you adding so much fuel with the Maf comp. and pulling so much timing with the sliders?
I Also noticed you have all your DTC checks disabled?

laserspeeddemon · 03-03-2011, 01:36 PM

OK, this may be a noob question? But how do I get the AEM UEGO to talk to the ECU. I planned on running a cable from the WB 02 Sensor to where the stock 02 connector is, but I'm not sure which wire to tap into.

Then I thought, maybe I should run a wire to pin 4 on the ECU to the gauge?

snowborder714 · 03-03-2011, 01:37 PM

externalsensorinput [ECMTuning - wiki]

aemwb [ECMTuning - wiki]

laserspeeddemon · 03-03-2011, 01:44 PM

So would I run a wire from the AEM WB Guage to pin 4? And what wire from the gauge to I run?

gofer · 03-03-2011, 01:56 PM

1g/2g AEM UEGO wiring
...I'm taking a chicklet from you.

haha.

Colt4G63 also · 03-03-2011, 02:08 PM

Wouldn't you rather run it to pin 15 (EGR temp input) for logging, and leave the narrowband alone?

Then you could run the 0-5v output through a buffer circut.

MY1GDSM · 03-03-2011, 02:22 PM

If he logs to the front o2 you won't have to worry about a buffer... also from his log it appears as thought he already is logging a Map sensor on the EGT... But I guess that could be selected unintentionally.

You can log the AEM gauge to the the EGT with out a buffer as well it just won't read in link below 11.0:1

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

OK, this may be a noob question? But how do I get the AEM UEGO to talk to the ECU.

If you need to know how to setup to PC side of things not just the wiring this should help...
capturedvalues demo

BTW laserspeeddemon I really hope this "Tune" wasn't payed for...

laserspeeddemon · 03-03-2011, 02:40 PM

It was, but not by me. I bought the car this way. The previous owner paid for it. To be fair. I was surprised at the power this car made at 18 psi on a E316g. In fact, I have taken a few DSMers for rides in this car and they, too, were surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofer

...I'm taking a chicklet from you.

haha.

I loled
I'm very used to taking my time doing my own research, but every since starting school. I have been extremely overwhelmed and I have little time for anything else in life.
================================================== =========================

Ok, so I tore apart the underside my car and got ready to do some soldering., only to find out that they soldered the WB to the IAT and have a MAP in the EGR. Since I already cut the wire for the front 02 (pin 4). I reconnected the wire for the IAT. Soldered the WB to pin 4 of the ECU.

I started capturing of the WB and MAP inputs.
Check out the new log.

Two things I noticed.

1) Can anyone tell me why my MAFRaw is at 600+ Hz at idle? Is it supposed to be that high?

2) Voltage for the Front O2 is more than 1v is this ok? I mean I do have the WB linked to pin 4. And is Narrowband Simulation turned on?

=====================================
Update 2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiQUiDx

A couple things I took notice is on an idle portion your ICS value is 0. That means your BISS is set improperly to obtain your idle. You want a value of 30 at idle. Your TPS voltage should be 0.63 at 0% throttle; you have 0.65v. Drop coasting offset to 150rpm at most. You have neither the wideband or the MAP sensor being logged on Link.

Personally, I would put the WB in the front o2 sensor location and enable narrow band simulation.

Ok, I cranked the BISS Screw to the ground, I still have a value of 15-20 ISC. As the car warms up. It gets less and fully warmed at it's almost back at 0.

How do I adjust TPS Voltage?

Drop Coasting is now set to 130

The front 02 is now the new home of a new Wideband 02 sensor. As mentioned above, the output is ran to pin 4 and I'm still not sure if I am simulating the narrowband correctly.

====================================
Update 3
Looks like I got Idle tuned. Anyone want to chime in? I adjusted the usecs from 360 to 390 at the end where you see the A/F go to 14.x:1.

It was at this time a cop walked up and told me that I had a noise compliant. And the engine goes off... so we packed it up for the night.

MY1GDSM · 03-04-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

I started capturing of the WB and MAP inputs.
Check out the new log.

Two things I noticed.

1) Can anyone tell me why my MAFRaw is at 600+ Hz at idle? Is it supposed to be that high?

That is normal, The Gm maf Hz scale is is completely different then a Mitsu one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

2) Voltage for the Front O2 is more than 1v is this ok? I mean I do have the WB linked to pin 4. And is Narrowband Simulation turned on?

You no longer have a Stock o2 hooked up correct?
So you shouldn't need to even look at that anymore....

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

How do I adjust TPS Voltage?

The front 02 is now the new home of a new Wideband 02 sensor. As mentioned above, the output is ran to pin 4 and I'm still not sure if I am simulating the narrowband correctly.

I'm gonna attach a EDA an ECM file for you to load...
If you would like...
I pretty much made the changes I think that would get you started an take care of some of your issues mentioned above....Just make sure you load them BOTH or you'll have problems, since I prefer to make deadtime changes in the DA maps...

To set the TPS you just start a log and with the car not running do a full throttle sweep to WOT, Stop the log an right click and select TPS adjust it will fill in the values you need for you...

then just commit the changes

Also one last thing since you have a Map sensor hooked up you should select in your captured values to log SDratio... if you decide to goto speed density instead of using the GM sensor in a way it wasn't designed

you can use you maf calibration(once its calibrated) to help tune you VE map...

EDIT: I guess I can't attach anything but a .ELG

Since I can't do that here is a few screen shots for setting that should be changed to start with...

laserspeeddemon · 03-04-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MY1GDSM

ou no longer have a Stock o2 hooked up correct?
So you shouldn't need to even look at that anymore....

I realize that. I am just not sure this particular circuit was designed to handle 5v. Since the voltage load is normally 0-1v.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MY1GDSM

To set the TPS you just start a log and with the car not running do a full throttle sweep to WOT, Stop the log an right click and select TPS adjust it will fill in the values you need for you...

then just commit the changes

I tried that already and the recommend ratio was 0% and 100%. However I didn't stop the log, but the demo video on the ECMTuning website, did't either and it made the adjustments. And it made adjustments based on "%" not "volts"

Quote:

Originally Posted by MY1GDSM

Also one last thing since you have a Map sensor hooked up you should select in your captured values to log SDratio... if you decide to goto speed density instead of using the GM sensor in a way it wasn't designed

you can use you maf calibration(once its calibrated) to help tune you VE map...

Too be honest, I am little scared of SD. I need to do more reading....whenever I get the time to....

MY1GDSM · 03-04-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

I realize that. I am just not sure this particular circuit was designed to handle 5v. Since the voltage load is normally 0-1v.

I tried that already and the recommend ratio was 0% and 100%. However I didn't stop the log, but the demo video on the ECMTuning website, did't either and it made the adjustments. And it made adjustments based on "%" not "volts"

Too be honest, I am little scared of SD. I need to do more reading....whenever I get the time to....

I run my Lc-1 to my front o2 without any problems. Im not sure why it would be a problem.

Your TPS just happens to be adjusted correctly...
Honestly, I don't think you really have to stop the log. I just do it out of habit...

Really SD isn't that scary wouldn't hurt to just log the Ratio so if you do make the switch then you'd have a bunch of logs with info to use for the switch. But it's not necessary I started Running SD without ever running a Maf like I said before it not bad at all...

snowborder714 · 03-04-2011, 07:32 AM

It's the narrowband that outputs 0-1v and it has nothing to do with the wiring being able to handle it. You'll be fine in that area.

9!'clipseDOHC · 03-04-2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserspeeddemon

Too be honest, I am little scared of SD. I need to do more reading....whenever I get the time to....

I'm getting ready to make the switch myself. Here's a great step by step write up I found. It's the PDF file attached to the first post. It's 20 pages long and very informational and easy to understand. It also has a section about logging an AEM wideband which might help you too. ECMTuning User Support Forums

MY1GDSM · 03-04-2011, 08:03 AM

Obviously anyone that Has Link should be able to go to that an download it.
But, Really it should attached here. so it's hosted here that way anyone can take a look...

Also, does anyone know if their is a way to a attach .Eda and .Ecm files here?

gofer · 03-04-2011, 08:08 AM

MY1GDSM Where did you come up with the WB switch point voltage? I'm looking at his logs and it appears its switching around 1.66v at idle, I'm just wondering if you might have seen something I didn't?

I've been meaning to tell Chris about the .eda/.ecm files not being able to upload to the forum but I keep forgetting.

MY1GDSM · 03-04-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gofer

MY1GDSM Where did you come up with the WB switch point voltage? I'm looking at his logs and it appears its switching around 1.66v at idle, I'm just wondering if you might have seen something I didn't?

I tend to not to trust the AEM white papers but, That is what is listed as being 14.68 in them...

HERE

snowborder714 · 03-04-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MY1GDSM

Also, does anyone know if their is a way to a attach .Eda and .Ecm files here?

I'll send Chris an e-mail to request he add those to the list of allowed attachments. Until then, you can change the file extension to some support file (.doc, .pdf, etc.) and upload. Then just tell the end user to change them after they download them.

gofer · 03-04-2011, 08:16 AM

Yea, those white papers which should never be trusted!

If you select a good chunk of that 2nd idle log and average the values showing RawAEMWBGauge its right at 1.66v which is its actual switch point. You've got to average the values in between the throttle blip though because that will throw off the 14.7:1 switch point voltage.